From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16F3B3B2A4 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 20:27:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id lw4so13955506ejb.12 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:27:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fMFIstfMRv2x0k4DkssZSlngLi1KaBVRsVMHJXNnPnE=; b=nvuu50Cqgqqf/7VT2lpBjaXnofUlsZD65h6DZkWXG310ygPZ46+PBSm9V2GkFUFSje dnNN7iPf8hRdAM5dYq3K9gP4CRTgFUnoIjjrBA8VtWZSNdX8X7350p4UQs+gvOQKYB9s jxY7q04aV1iEu6YHYhWzuoQVpcD3Fatmmmy04Hie7Flq3Ir4oqhdtgQE4ZltQuIw8XEo kbx+MAfz9aLst8rGP7QCTYIh6QC8+eR4JS55uUIzuxZcBkvYiHO+QGXqRPhdLGui+Uqq leNj9TAbtQ2YHqKJSkbxZwBunE2/6JYJD4MNqpJVjdX5E+Nh0bcvcuxm39awIJODsAn8 3Y5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fMFIstfMRv2x0k4DkssZSlngLi1KaBVRsVMHJXNnPnE=; b=o7cEk2K/EvlNyJOAGCyL2aFDXkTnMOpCc53bKhIrokpX+1MS7qocPdJaR3Y4S/9Gaa nMlsiPcQcls+83MQO3CNcK/NJ1yVmoUGGQyu7ShSfjujsfUgmgNLdCgFbWdSdTkAfyCV n12sUflkki772kbsUhHf93rdH5k1mtoHLBTdmGFjcFk55YaZAEGJOE269ah8INix1dAY IXxu7LrxIt6pYdP6tmKtVmN3aYUqyLGiAwjowXssTwRlaexanKCr2wGuerR1T8XS61th 30p96HfuBbLpXZjeMt25yMYcuFn+k5KECukbTlbRTSA/q3e1JLa52s3QraIOrhwzkXW/ D9vQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5336X+rnYrywJVFrGwJbyWPekJL0ZQ+Fb6G1wDjVYPEBWBHYfYYk pgQruD+zTuLKZibbBh2nBRJCa2W4VOagLdiKpXg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoaF8jqTCzLdIIM4mc6CjYD99aaMSWou5s4dvj4hmXemSKbDJWCzFqXTQLzIOdTdiB/2Jcw2tlUejzdPSTgXk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:d9ce:b0:6ce:6a06:c01 with SMTP id qk14-20020a170906d9ce00b006ce6a060c01mr8010635ejb.666.1645838851883; Fri, 25 Feb 2022 17:27:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9a206057-00b3-da6b-1adf-607a7af025a9@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2d0ad1db-b6bf-b8c0-79dc-51643abbcc76@auckland.ac.nz> <601e0ed6-779e-e032-3800-ad2cfc7c8867@cs.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <601e0ed6-779e-e032-3800-ad2cfc7c8867@cs.auckland.ac.nz> From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 20:27:19 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ulrich Speidel Cc: Nathan Owens , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] Tonga's international cable is back up X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 01:27:33 -0000 My mental model for starlink was very different than what has deployed so far. A local geek guru would get one for the local library/coffee shop/post office, set up local wifi and computers cybercafe style, set up a few other p2p wireless links, perhaps a lte node, etc, and enhance village to village (or island to island) communications via a starlink node X miles away, as well as provide/integrate with more local services such as local email, videoconferencing and telephony without having to traverse the sat at all. As things built out, fiber or other forms of connectivity would emerge, eventually connecting via land or high speed p2p fixed wireless links, and starlink reverting to more of a backup. Existing ISPs (notably wisps), would build out excessively remote areas this way. This "vision" is highly influenced by efforts such as the villagetelco and olpc. To some extent the new "premium" service could go that way, but classic business networking services like BGP, working ipv6, real ipv4 addresses, etc, are so far, lacking. BYOIP and dual homing for existing providers has not been spoken of... But anyway, I hope the government of tonga uses what they got wisely, though my primary use case would be for multiplexing low bitrate apps for a lot of people (like voip and financial transactions), over the web for a few. On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 8:12 PM Ulrich Speidel w= rote: > > Someone from FINTEL mentioned this during my seminar on Thursday, apparen= tly they started operations on the 16th and launched officially on the 23rd= . > > That said, if you try to order Starlink for an address in, say, Neiafu on= Vava'u, which has 15k people on it and lost its domestic cable connection,= you'll be able to pay a US$99 deposit to reserve Starlink for ... 2023. > > The 50 or so Dishys they have delivered will remain under government cont= rol and will probably go all over the place, as there are many smaller isla= nd that have no connectivity at all right now. So I doubt that we'll see en= d user reviews any time soon. I may be able to get some informal feedback i= n a while. > > One of the local satellite(-agnostic) ISPs did a review of Starlink servi= ce in Auckland, at 37 degrees south: > > https://getgravity.nz/blog/starlink-review-new-zealand-test-results-2022/ > > Now that's with a gateway in cycling distance (Clevedon) and two more wit= hin less than 200 km, in a region that is probably not too overloaded with = users right. They still see frequent outages, and I guess it would be worse= in Tonga for the time being. > > But I guess if it's the alternative to zero connectivity, it's worth havi= ng, so kudos to them for pushing the envelope here. > > On 26/02/2022 7:19 am, Nathan Owens wrote: > > https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1497258566347943936 > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 9:15 AM Nathan Owens wrote: >> >> Per the Starlink 4-11 Launch webcast just minutes ago, they have launche= d service in Tonga. >> >> On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 9:12 AM Ulrich Speidel wrote: >>> >>> Matangitonga said that Starlink wanted to launch this week. But I haven= 't heard confirmation from anyone that they actually have. >>> >>> I guess a dishy without a link might still make a nice coffee table if = nothing else & might even keep your coffee at temperature for a bit longer,= but seriously: I suppose they must think in earnest that they'll be able t= o deliver at least some service some percentage of the time, which is more = than some of the smaller places have right now. And I don't really want to = dump on them - at least they tried, as did with varying levels of success a= lmost everybody else in the satellite business, and that's really all you c= an ask for. >>> >>> Tongans are also an incredibly patient and grateful people, whatever th= ey have they make do with. I first had plenty of opportunity to witness thi= s when we went there on our honeymoon in 2003. One of the island villages w= e stayed on in the Ha'apai group had piped water to the beachfront properti= es installed yonks ago, before they got electricity. Then the Australians b= rought electricity around 2002 & used a trench digger to put the cable in a= long the main drag, unaware that there were water pipes in the ground. The = locals were too grateful for the electricity to complain that they now need= ed to walk to the cistern to get their water, and the problem remained unso= lved a year later - we had to wash from big barrels and a bit of rainwater = off the roof. As we left Ha'apai after a hair-raising boat passage in a 4 m= boat in 6 m swells, we didn't have a flight booked, so went to the Ha'apai= office of the long since defunct Royal Tongan Airlines to book ourselves o= n the next flight out. The two ladies in the office gave us their most welc= oming smiles, along with the regret that they couldn't book us a ticket as = the computer were down. We asked how long such outages typically lasted and= were told that they didn't know but this one had lasted three months alrea= dy. We then made our way to the airport with the help of a few bored Mormon= missionaries. We were the only people there until the station manager turn= ed up. He reckoned there would be seats and told us that he was the local b= aker as well and had been trying out artisan bread recipes, which the local= s liked, but was finding it difficult to get the right flour. Nice chat! Ev= entually the plane arrived early without any passengers. Pilots and station= manager spent ten seconds bitching about their employer (rightfully so, a = long story I shan't repeat - but neither the employees' nor the management'= s fault, though), then the pilots decided that they wanted lunch in Vava'u = and off we took 15 minutes ahead of schedule... >>> >>> On 22/02/2022 8:45 pm, Daniel AJ Sokolov @mobile wrote: >>> >>> So the Starlink terminals have arrived on Tongatapu, but are not operat= ional yet? >>> >>> Cheers >>> Daniel >>> >>> >>> On February 22, 2022 7:31:25 a.m. UTC, Ulrich Speidel wrote: >>> >FWIW... this restores connectivity to ~80% of Tonga's population. >>> > >>> >The domestic cable may be up to 9 months off, depending on cable lead >>> >time, apparently it's got to come from France. In the interim, there's >>> >work on more satellite connectivity, I heard from a satellite ISP in N= Z >>> >today that they were about to ship a few units for Eutelsat links up. = I >>> >haven't heard any further about operational readiness of Starlink, but >>> >have heard from a well-connected source that the dishys delivered to >>> >Tonga will remain in Tongan government service in underconnected place= s >>> >if and when service becomes available. >>> > >>> >I would expect them to hang onto a couple of units for Tongatapu just = in >>> >case there'll be more turbidity currents messing with the cable, heave= n >>> >forbid. >>> > >>> >-- >>> >**************************************************************** >>> >Dr. Ulrich Speidel >>> > >>> >School of Computer Science >>> > >>> >Room 303S.594 (City Campus) >>> > >>> >The University of Auckland >>> >u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz >>> >http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ >>> >**************************************************************** >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >_______________________________________________ >>> >Starlink mailing list >>> >Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> >https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >>> -- >>> **************************************************************** >>> Dr. Ulrich Speidel >>> >>> School of Computer Science >>> >>> Room 303S.594 (City Campus) >>> >>> The University of Auckland >>> u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz >>> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ >>> **************************************************************** >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > -- > **************************************************************** > Dr. Ulrich Speidel > > School of Computer Science > > Room 303S.594 (City Campus) > > The University of Auckland > u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ > **************************************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --=20 I tried to build a better future, a few times: https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC