Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army?

[Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 1:07 PM David Lang via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Also, they didn't say that SpaceX was cutting service or stopping funding it,
> they just said that they aren't going to continue to provide the service for
> free indefinantly and are not going to keep providing lots of dishes for free
> (apparently there are around 500/month being destroyed due to combat)

Meanwhile, oleg repairs shot up or broken terminals with what spare
parts he can scrounge.

https://twitter.com/olegkutkov

> David Lang
>
>   On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, David Lang wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 12:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
> > To: Larry Press <lpress@csudh.edu>
> > Cc: Kurtis Heimerl <kheimerl@cs.washington.edu>, David Lang <david@lang.hm>,
> >     Starlink list <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army?
> >
> > some interesting tidbits in that article
> >
> > 1. 25k dishes rather than the 15k I had heard befor
> > 2. they are providing full business rates rather than consumer rates
> > 2a. it's interesting that they can do this with the consumer dishes, although
> > a lot of what I saw shipped were the gen1 (round) dishes, which may be better
> > than the gen 2 consumer dishes.
> >
> > yes, the companies who manufacture the weapons have been paid in full.
> >
> > I think it's worth pointing out that Starlink was never intended to be the
> > entire communications infrastructure for a country. I think it would be a
> > very interesting thing to investigate what the actual density of users and
> > data usage is (there is a graph posted, but I haven't tried to get a good
> > enough copy of it to see the units). It could confirm/refute the "starlink
> > can't scale" argument
> >
> > David Lang
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, Larry Press wrote:
> >
> >> SpaceX has given a more detailed statement of expenses to the Pentagon:
> >> https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html
> >>
> >> They have been "paid" in favorable publicity and have tested/refined things
> >> like mobile connectivity.
> >>
> >> Aren't the companies that supply weapons, ammunition, etc. paid?
> >>
> >> Larry
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of David
> >> Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 10:28 AM
> >> To: Kurtis Heimerl <kheimerl@cs.washington.edu>
> >> Cc: Starlink list <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army?
> >>
> >> Having now read more info on this, less significant than the $80m total
> >> figure
> >> is the $20m/month figure he quoted. With 15k dishes as the figure that they
> >> sent
> >> (separate from whatever has been purchased on the commercial side), that
> >> works
> >> out to 1.3k/dish/month, which is very high.
> >>
> >> now, not being able to deploy reliable ground stations inside Ukraine could
> >> be
> >> driving up costs, plus the ongoing battle against jamming. But in his tweet
> >> he
> >> also cites satellite costs, which should not be allocated as "Ukraine
> >> related"
> >> costs (and I don't think the cyberdefense and jamming defense work should
> >> be
> >> either)
> >>
> >> David Lang
> >>
> >> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, Kurtis Heimerl via Starlink wrote:
> >>
> >>> This thread
> >>> (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/dim0kq/status/1580827171903635456__;!!P7nkOOY!reUDfoQpkbJ6YAQ6h436UHdL9D0lnxDeqlc29JPUsrl8V_02dlWYYFi4zfQ-CCRLKetEGxza7FjOyJDcUURE6WtPnA$
> >>> )
> >>> strongly argues that Starlink is largely paid for their service, at
> >>> least on the consumer side. I imagine there are significant
> >>> operational expenses in dealing with the various actors involved but
> >>> not on the basic model.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 9:06 AM Juliusz Chroboczek via Starlink
> >>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In essence, once you give something away for free, not even setting the
> >>>>> expectation that it’s a “freemium” model, it’s very hard to get out of
> >>>>> it. If
> >>>>> you then claim your costs are way higher than what analysis work out,
> >>>>> eyebrows
> >>>>> raise way above the hairline.
> >>>>
> >>>> Uh.  Hmm.
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-- 
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Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC