From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (mail-wr1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEB5B3CBDB; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id r29so7351926wra.13; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:30:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1678822235; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=cePAEYzW06PwXDiG0dKfcrNkIl37a15YO/DxOEcqh9Y=; b=Ka/IhMC7MikTzZjV2RCpcbRkcnIToBh8qtta8nO5098Culw90EkpdjaQLmmfeTp1Lt fSW3Mmf1Fs+uZFPKbfZqk75rGHR++hZjxCgyuiPrdhni5Ybu6zNG3lELS1iKE4Ql9RmS M+pldgQP2jpH86pdXGpfJL5RcnPRiAj0KC10uWRKu5sg6Tvi0ZArhkxPuqKdsXKgsGdZ BPRdNAk+cO3tm7RWytQVfoojLOJrQlmLXdkX+bkqhboKautRwJgQEYXvBFG7Sr7sbxG4 5viQMsobr/uUTL1RXha6UTvbD74K+AVIqln83JzK5dEtAWI4vvkRd1hNlg4EehB26h07 0Apw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678822235; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cePAEYzW06PwXDiG0dKfcrNkIl37a15YO/DxOEcqh9Y=; b=c2aAAOnf1CLLHHe+rDUxRSlUzZmtytOZ5UOz/RdSI+UmcpTzernAFE4sX7ZoGsEp2M JzD4eyZ/cU/ivU/0HzTuS503udRlnD3WO1ezmrGImPFwJ2RQjnlrMeSYGkeq68mJsHOE MRCH4qjY05vDWyljONjoZcJ8PjXP4Ek+zZQbFlRe9nitJGQmgm6Uus0ryc503WuKsT/J 49ZCUXLmFK2UI5l/q+fRLNa4BgwRIKoznzuEqDPaxFmYgFOPKSSZ60sEYEWVGYLnpWx0 Y4CYLnf+E2F94jRaLFBIJzvb7smmrpDTeHWC/ZhqeYLVOaDrgtE2K/NangXT8Ej4/Zz1 N4hQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKV/VqzM2sfSAikLUh+TiY4Q/tybtbkuhgy4IHzAB4UK+C8SNsv2 KJhPrrqe2DUDHQvgYH2RZNEBqRI2vSHP9ZJDR37IsHcI X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set9hSEbnKGqvJpHzdJMAyE0htz09s5H3UcrQDOvJA/OWk0y7oN1gJ75F0KcHjttI+95k8YJNBr1vTRRyRW7D1XE= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:49d0:0:b0:2cf:ec67:8f9f with SMTP id t16-20020a5d49d0000000b002cfec678f9fmr31833wrs.13.1678822235594; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:30:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3CD0B9E6-0B2A-4A70-8F53-ED0822DF77A6@gmx.de> <13DE6E53-665F-4C20-BBE2-70E685421E9D@gmx.de> <22C819FA-DDD7-4B9B-8C09-8008D4273287@gmx.de> <5e7fac51071bdbb20837e72e7eedfc7c@rjmcmahon.com> <3f45d2a0b6e46d7b2775fb801e805f93@rjmcmahon.com> <70F71290-C6CB-4D19-8A88-F0F17C0BDDA2@gmx.de> <5e0cd693c4749d128dbb48d6c1129071@rjmcmahon.com> <2ab2983d-6beb-49cb-8c35-e481cbfdc7a3@Spark> <89c55d67-86f0-494d-a09e-c9aeebe46dc0@rjmcmahon.com> <70CBB03C-4394-4A93-BBB5-7449DC1AAF9C@gmx.de> <063359bf-5bf3-4688-852c-a7d81e6b80a3@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: To: dan Cc: Robert McMahon , Mike Puchol , libreqos , Dave Taht via Starlink , Rpm , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] On FiWi X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:30:36 -0000 On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:18=E2=80=AFPM dan via Bloat wrote: > > end users are still going to want their own router/firewall. I am old fashioned this way, also, but I think most modern users would not care, any more about this. They are used to pretty much having all their data exposed to the internet, available via cellphone, and used to having their security cameras and other personal information, gone, out there. They just want internet. > That's > my point, I don't see how you can have that on-prem firewall while > having a remote radio that's useful. > > I would adamantly oppose anyone I know passing their firewall off to > the upstream vendor. I run an MSP and I would offer a customer to > drop my services if they were to buy into something like this on the > business side. > > So I really only see this sort of concept for campus networks where > the end users are 'part' of the entity. > > On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:14=E2=80=AFPM Robert McMahon wrote: > > > > It's not discrete routers. It's more like a transceiver. WiFi is alrea= dy splitting at the MAC for MLO. I perceive two choices for the split, one = at the PHY DAC or, two, a minimalist 802.3 tunneling of 802.11 back to the = FiWi head end. Use 802.3 to leverage merchant silicon supporting up to 200 = or so RRHs or even move the baseband DSP there. I think a split PHY may not= work well but a thorough eng analysis is still warranted. > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > Get BlueMail for Android > > On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:54 AM, dan wrote: > >>> > >>> You could always do it yourself. > >>> > >>> Most people need high skilled network engineers to provide them IT s= ervices. This need is only going to grow and grow. We can help by producing= better and simpler offerings, be they DIY or by service providers. > >>> > >>> Steve Job's almost didn't support the iPhone development because he = hated "the orifices." Probably time for many of us to revisit our belief se= t. Does it move the needle, even if imperfectly? > >>> > >>> FiWi blows the needle off the gauge by my judgment. Who does it is s= econdary. > >>> > >>> Bob > >> > >> > >> most people are unwilling to pay for those services also lol. > >> > >> I don't see the paradigm of discreet routers/nat per prem anytime > >> soon. If you subtract that piece of it then we're basically just > >> talking XGSPON or similar. > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat --=20 Come Heckle Mar 6-9 at: https://www.understandinglatency.com/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC