From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x329.google.com (mail-wm1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A5003B29E for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2023 17:02:02 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm1-x329.google.com with SMTP id bi26-20020a05600c3d9a00b003d3404a89faso2866128wmb.1 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2023 14:02:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=h2OOx4JouHj37zRrr0ec93eIoVmNaKprbUhsKInSnRE=; b=mDe8v2/OMcvxL/KLFBgJGbNdo5kPrTY41MSoR4kd/z9UaW3oadyqjUd7Jm8DsItNoJ 42OIbPubbqBFN6xpX1dN5vwYmXAb6M/QklkNJDRS1jR5EKzlVFjuJ6hHWqVIBbt9kAGw RhEkv59TJa6dvweN22P26lW9FiMOPBeEzxtMelXcftiECvSRyjVbrZu9nqHCRFvrisnr UTfMpN+5TCCDOVbnIaN7ZPU0Vz2po1ViML2zSq5sjUlzXUTmmTpWIOWZqaeIKlmHg3GI 3YIgFQLtk8xqvFoJ/c5wukLarM/ZZz3QqShWCsLf/3KPA0L/GGEJl8fL6etbTrXTlELL lEOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=h2OOx4JouHj37zRrr0ec93eIoVmNaKprbUhsKInSnRE=; b=5S/3wT7cNLZ2z1NAJnYQWaeA3Z4Qi/FyHO3C3Lzoy9Wzsa8k3GFkzhL/etFcrn8pGG UAJRs4LAUcW4JFoGyYGtDwLTOfiudqrogojkUeUIE3JfugzLe6F20JZ4520DhI9hrSNa 97I00jrCLrHJf4ovOEg6PGlqNU/J6mAc1/k1b9cSCr3yEvia/MoWaFUHriMP+GKkJvzs B56XlMvCu2DHEHFTkf9/kt99AiZ3qkCl7b+vDo5PR+11O+33OGLpA+cAl70ulJm1fKEl Mmr97Lmi+hPYrh4r8jPotYTtcv+DxUwf0gldnKhpjb9dp9FkVICig3dqjGNHCqRPq2mq nc9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqnubC0Cc0vbhdzZLFp7qwLVzdbQne4ljrfsbja5B8FMWCeEtNX oUUrs2GuH8Fg+tS35GHi96+s1WNiMANL+3p086lmJoUJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXtP3grvGhCMd0q/NoWkBeM8vezr7N+6eEi5+VOlVa8O2GVtoJ0FDi5FG/JCf8/tpf3ckG/w0cMXmkIcNqUvZ0A= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c7cb:0:b0:3cf:a511:3217 with SMTP id z11-20020a7bc7cb000000b003cfa5113217mr2562088wmk.205.1672956120661; Thu, 05 Jan 2023 14:02:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1672870861.69732760@apps.rackspace.com> <58319729-3458-42A6-A6BC-6B75E43E81C1@apple.com> In-Reply-To: <58319729-3458-42A6-A6BC-6B75E43E81C1@apple.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2023 14:01:48 -0800 Message-ID: To: Christoph Paasch Cc: "David P. Reed" , Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2023 22:02:02 -0000 I am going to start heavily recommending more folk take packet captures. On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 1:19 PM Christoph Paasch via Starlink wrote: > > I think, the cloudflare test uses a single TCP connection, while Ookla/Fa= st/=E2=80=A6 use multiple connections. > > That=E2=80=99s probably the difference for you. > > > Christoph > > On Jan 4, 2023, at 2:21 PM, David P. Reed via Starlink wrote: > > I don't know how to debug this, but the cloudflare speed test really suck= s on my home wired network, compared to others. And also I discovered to my= chagrin that the DSLReports speedtest is now broken, at least in my Chrome= browser. > > > > The speeds measured by Cloudflare are essentially 1/2 of both Ookla and F= ast.com. > > > > Cloudflare in my test config gives ~500/10 Mb/sec, with a download latenc= y of 14.6 msec, upload latency of 11.6. > > > > Oookla and Fast give ~980/25 Mb/sec, with "latency" being about 11 or 12 = msec. > > > > This difference is observed over a tuned "cake" install on my Linux route= r, and the home network is 10 GigE to my workstation from the router, and t= he router talks to my DOCSIS cable modem on RCN at 1 GigE, with RCN's produ= ct offering being its "Gig" product. > > > > Now, I hate using Ookla and getting bombarded with ads! I don't really tr= ust fast.com, but it used to be OK. > > > > The real disappointment was that the DSL Reports speed test, which I used= to recommend is so broken. It claims it can't reach any of its 3 selected = test sites, because I may have an "alien script" and suggests my DNS might = be "slow" or my Chrome might have browser malware. > > > > Now, maybe Chrome has browser malware on my machine. This is troubling to= a serious degree to me, and I will be investigating. > > > > However, Cloudflare seems to be somewhat flaky to a significant degree. (= It also doesn't seem to push a fast network connection nearly hard enough t= o measure lag under load, it seems to me). > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 2:20pm, starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.= net said: > > > Send Starlink mailing list submissions to > > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > starlink-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Starlink digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present > > (jf@jonathanfoulkes.com) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:20:15 -0500 > > From: "jf@jonathanfoulkes.com" > > To: Dave Taht > > Cc: bloat , libreqos > > , Cake List > > , Dave Taht via Starlink > > , Rpm , > > IETF IPPM WG > > Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas > > present > > Message-ID: <845161E4-474C-44A9-92D4-1702748A3DA1@jonathanfoulkes.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > > > HNY Dave and all the rest, > > > > Great to see yet another capacity test add latency metrics to the resul= ts. This > > one looks like a good start. > > > > Results from my Windstream DOCSIS 3.1 line (3.1 on download only, up is= 3.0) > > Gigabit down / 35Mbps up provisioning. Using an IQrouter Pro (an i5 x86= ) with Cake > > set for 710/31 as this ISP can=E2=80=99t deliver reliable low-latency u= nless you > > shave a good bit off the targets. My local loop is pretty congested. > > > > Here=E2=80=99s the latest Cloudflare test: > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: CFSpeedTest_Gig35_20230104.png > > Type: image/png > > Size: 379539 bytes > > Desc: not available > > URL: > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > > > And an Ookla test run just afterward: > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: Speedtest_net_Gig35_20230104.png > > Type: image/png > > Size: 40589 bytes > > Desc: not available > > URL: > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > > > They are definitely both in the ballpark and correspond to other tests = run from > > the router itself or my (wired) MacBook Pro. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Jonathan > > > > > > > On Jan 4, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm > > wrote: > > > > > > Please try the new, the shiny, the really wonderful test here: > > > https://speed.cloudflare.com/ > > > > > > I would really appreciate some independent verification of > > > measurements using this tool. In my brief experiments it appears - as > > > all the commercial tools to date - to dramatically understate the > > > bufferbloat, on my LTE, (and my starlink terminal is out being > > > hacked^H^H^H^H^H^Hworked on, so I can't measure that) > > > > > > My test of their test reports 223ms 5G latency under load , where > > > flent reports over 2seconds. See comparison attached. > > > > > > My guess is that this otherwise lovely new tool, like too many, > > > doesn't run for long enough. Admittedly, most web objects (their > > > target market) are small, and so long as they remain small and not > > > heavily pipelined this test is a very good start... but I'm pretty > > > sure cloudflare is used for bigger uploads and downloads than that. > > > There's no way to change the test to run longer either. > > > > > > I'd love to get some results from other networks (compared as usual t= o > > > flent), especially ones with cake on it. I'd love to know if they > > > measured more minimum rtts that can be obtained with fq_codel or cake= , > > > correctly. > > > > > > Love Always, > > > The Grinch > > > > > > -- > > > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366= 665607352320-FXtz > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > > > > _____________= __________________________________ > > > Rpm mailing list > > > Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Starlink Digest, Vol 22, Issue 10 > > **************************************** > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --=20 This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC