From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x22b.google.com (mail-oi1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1CB23B29D for ; Fri, 23 Dec 2022 10:02:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-oi1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id d127so3438563oif.12 for ; Fri, 23 Dec 2022 07:02:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=YHG7HZr/3XULk+wPV2+CXZQ29sUb0GcBWooBz1+mD3U=; b=Q9FGF+UvvX2PhIGhuTB5GhoOF0yrL2IaI8a8nw1nHiUxQo3mFAjRM5w1wKxMc7K9Rl 6rTmERs4nNBWBtVCSKRcEEce3G4h/JV68ZDZxOxILsU819mO9AMMiFh6bMUEJGcOPkxe MY5OPlMMwrmHPLt6WMEKV2DNAN7oyMcuDLT7WD+3ZYYl95MTneWQ/mPHgFbNJb2NAQUI b3RFzGpZL2Q4+RHTcZdWAsjil79ai6IKf5FTtPLREpmVTo8hGrsbl0vh2Qj4GdWVzEQB gjWjNS9asb0zYNQMxKG31xA0gDtjxcNRjhRZM1ZELqgno32UZR+YBqcwOyQ9QY7E59+Q Xjvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YHG7HZr/3XULk+wPV2+CXZQ29sUb0GcBWooBz1+mD3U=; b=FCh+PGbEUdkOcVJwMsl1INonfkG6Wua6YkhIV+VGrbWd16gm8NoE3azpbc41jo50mv Qf6+vsgOHZy1NBK1ubr8AhGuRi1NttuoU6FDZaYJRSD/q69EHsTygZ6lDsY7n6IItzfn OS1dlqVhfoVZZq1kVmW/ShxvRCa4JU3UEF2bwRtiTU0AQhWXsbbKWC+s5zo1MD+Lq7TQ ebgaPIKi22rsw5B2pYPoHEWlfGXUc4ftEJmcyItKwtxh+m18c8na3Dhd51LH3B+zyFt4 UMVHwUdfusuQdN4iYljiyYZvITqaKG5ie/mpFI7rwRY1d+bBXbMF6f1vU3DOUNmUns9J enHg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqDdujJfNrP+UOGnmFmwkoOahbfGY3f783qSlPvOrVDig8Qsapj ix8hCIFquLrawUwbUMri4lE8xx6NTUr5ASQhb0MXujuiZnI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXuZDDCaRGchLnjYpAbN03ngeGukKsFghF/bDYppr6uDxl20vTTj83A53z0/5mWvLlWtzAzCBKN4UgPJ3A38Rbs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1493:b0:35e:b032:9cb3 with SMTP id e19-20020a056808149300b0035eb0329cb3mr623877oiw.170.1671807723872; Fri, 23 Dec 2022 07:02:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6358:7e54:b0:e0:5763:fde6 with HTTP; Fri, 23 Dec 2022 07:02:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5F7B7DE2-D356-4183-9DC9-EF80BF83E660@gmx.de> References: <5F7B7DE2-D356-4183-9DC9-EF80BF83E660@gmx.de> From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2022 16:02:03 +0100 Message-ID: To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] Fwd: [Make-wifi-fast] make-wifi-fast X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2022 15:02:04 -0000 Hi, Sorry, maybe I did not craft the subject correctly. I am receiving the daily digest of the list, not individual messages. I have seen before that the L2 engineers (Wi-Fi, DVB...) and the Internet engineers (L3) are trying to solve the same issue (QoS, congestion control) without being aware of what each other are doing and not even getting coordinated. I am afraid that nowadays we have even the application layer engineers doing their own stuff (DASH, CDNs...). Some time ago, I worked in a project about cross-layer optimization techniques for SATCOM systems, where one of the issues was to try to optimize transport layer performance with L2 info. I was just a mere observer of what academy people in the consortium where proposing. That was quite long ago: https://artes.esa.int/projects/ipfriendly-crosslayer-optimization-adaptive-= satellite-systems Today I came across this: https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/white-paper-why-wi-fi-6-goes-hand-in-h= and-with-cellular-to-enable-the-hyper-connected-enterprise-future "the performance uplift of Wi-Fi 6 over Wi-Fi 5 is substantial and more than sufficient to support innovative use cases such as automated guided vehicles, industrial robots and many other applications." This sound like Wi-Fi 6 will support low latency and will have a good QoS support. Maybe... Regards, David 2022-12-21 8:54 GMT+01:00, Sebastian Moeller : > Hi, > > See [SM] below. > > On 21 December 2022 08:37:27 CET, "David Fern=C3=A1ndez via Starlink" > wrote: >>What about this? >>https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-certified-wmm-programs >> >>Isn't this Wi-Fi MM (Multimedia) supposed to solve Wi-Fi QoS issues? > > [SM] In home network reality it failed to do so. I would guess > partly because the admission control component is optional and as far as = I > can tell not available in the usual WiFi routers and APs. A free for all > priority system that in addition diminishes the total achievable throughp= ut > when the higher priority tiers are used introduces at least as much QoS > issues a it solves IMHO. This might be different for 'enterprise WiFi gea= r' > but I have no experience with that... > > Regard > Sebastian > > P.S.: This feels like you might responded to a different thread than the > iperf2 one we are in right now? > > > >> >>> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2022 11:04:13 -0800 >>> From: rjmcmahon >>> To: Sebastian Moeller >>> Cc: rjmcmahon via Make-wifi-fast >>> , Dave T=C3=A4ht >>> , Rpm , libreqos >>> , Dave Taht via Starlink >>> , bloat >>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] Fwd: [Make-wifi-fast] make-wifi-fast >>> 2016 & crusader >>> Message-ID: <4e8ee21b1a69fba9c61366f6055fbc13@rjmcmahon.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUTF-8; format=3Dflowed >>> >>> Thanks for the well-written response Sebastian. I need to think more >>> about the load vs no load OWD differentials and maybe offer that as an >>> integrated test. Thanks for bringing it up (again.) I do think a >>> low-duty cycle bounceback test to the AP could be interesting too. >>> >>> I don't know of any projects working on iperf 2 & containers but it has >>> been suggested as useful. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>Starlink mailing list >>Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >