From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05AA73CBC3 for ; Mon, 6 May 2024 09:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2e2a4c20870so24629321fa.3 for ; Mon, 06 May 2024 06:22:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1715001719; x=1715606519; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=p0E7Ts/bylYArt3R2BXdcabi5U1RvLRTfEJpGlN7w0I=; b=dwXlGCmRhD03SggKIm3u2H/HGdXxp8aNNTxlKetiTBeoGxWE4ixeE/WubNM0yW4Jy6 1RrhXdL5wjfRW6363bM25cxqwcdGMG3rT3kSF6UzOttdtGHSJ4ktyMOY1A3TjX0cqIaQ vIkCQ4VGqfD1V65rhPQpqdO+oC18EVZ/HVLOjIZ7zAVO4u7HSrrN65CHp0g0CJYrwcpQ c99NhJsdbgcHOCvpR36Lb4tDYJQqKXJszAyg07Tc6IpW74b8oJ8HaW0MqDcYMhpIvF8R bJCziwTbl65gSXLCISeYmvTCBi8jjb86NwiTSMreUvqBe8qzz6WQepFsrmty5OXfw8Cg o0Ag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715001719; x=1715606519; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=p0E7Ts/bylYArt3R2BXdcabi5U1RvLRTfEJpGlN7w0I=; b=W3gUmN7kCcGz6pIuwuJedUGytrvZmoFcer8WU8u7GlHbqMkLlLTmTtkpJZvq49wyeM PI820I+lCEw0kr7/8OFX+PXuMjap3XQjXy19r5Q6HwQvE4xiKpxVRDD4Deoaki0kZyoL 6OR5RqPM15oUc0TMJtPpugr1EGQNd6cslMs8K3IkJ1OLSu6EqxIBOsREnUt7K97E0yC5 Sb8QVLcPtIFUr+Ltyw+4qCVeMZ/616zpycl8mCGYordvIyDz24Nd29p/+mxXs8ejQwvo FfK4TPuHaovBluPMtUuREF1JJ/sDMMR5naHk2DOzx/jj1j122O4XrYyhF6ezEJZQDdzC n4Lg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy5H+1Wdh1W8q/5Y3BhDw1q1Mp+nFFjeCnBsq2DPrPLg8s6RxAc bT30R7jjvIuAKvNaYGCdKcblw0RLd75QZPMr1Uc/7C99Wm2CqStJRILBqg6Poo00wxUvnQicH48 LQEKSYIHSGEuT5zIUweaA4lFNVboyidyqY+c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEbBTRRWZIFXdEMSV+bz3v8VKD7tNeVXgsXjSk2FSAKyxbTvo/9/q8bIxy5p0u6PeLDQppD4zguVoVdGf1QlIw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7312:0:b0:2e2:67f:2242 with SMTP id o18-20020a2e7312000000b002e2067f2242mr6328120ljc.36.1715001718424; Mon, 06 May 2024 06:21:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Mon, 6 May 2024 15:21:21 +0200 Message-ID: To: starlink , alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000374cf60617c8f4d4" Subject: Re: [Starlink] =?utf-8?q?It=E2=80=99s_the_Latency=2C_FCC?= X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 13:22:01 -0000 --000000000000374cf60617c8f4d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For " I dont know what MPEG codec is it, at what mbit/s speed" you may check this: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/2024-April/002706.html From: Alexandre Petrescu To: Frantisek Borsik , Colin_Higbie Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Starlink] It=E2=80=99s the Latency, FCC Message-ID: <298126c9-7854-47c5-a965-c0f89a855939@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed" Le 02/05/2024 =C3=A0 21:50, Frantisek Borsik a =C3=A9crit : > Thanks, Colin. This was just another great read on video (and audio - > in the past emails from you) bullet-proofing for the near future. > > To be honest, the consensus on the bandwidth overall in the > bufferbloat related circles was in the 25/3 - 100/20 ballpark To continue on this discussion of 25mbit/s (mbyte/s ?) of 4k, and 8k, here are some more thoughts: - about 25mbit/s bw needs for 4K: hdmi cables for 4K HDR10 (high dynamic range) are specified at 18gbit/s and not 25mbit/s (mbyte?). These HDMI cables dont run IP. But, supposedly, the displayed 4K image is of a higher quality if played over hdmi (presumably from a player) than from a server remote on the Internet. To achieve parity, maybe one wants to run that hdmi flow from the server with IP, and at that point the bandwidth requirement is higher than 25mbit/s. This goes hand in hand with the disc evolutions (triple-layer bluray discs of 120Gbyte capacity is the most recent; I dont see signs of that to slow). - in some regions, the terrestrial DVB (TV on radio frequencies, with antenna receivers, not IP) run at 4K HDR10 starting this year. I dont know what MPEG codec is it, at what mbit/s speed. But it is not over the Internet. This means that probably ISPs are inclined to do more than that 4K over the Internet, maybe 8K, to distinguish their service from DVB. The audience of these DVB streams is very wide, with cheap one-time buy receivers (no subscription, like with ISP) already widely available in electronics stores. --000000000000374cf60617c8f4d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For " I dont=20 know what MPEG codec is it, at what mbit/s speed" you may check this:<= /div>

From: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
To: Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>, Colin_Higbie
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <CHigbie1@higbie.name>
Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net= >
Subject: Re: [Starlink] It=E2=80=99s the Latency, FCC
Message-ID: <298126c9-7854-47c5-a965-c0f89a855939@gmail.com= >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowe= d"


Le 02/05/2024 =C3=A0 21:50, Frantisek Borsik a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
> Thanks, Colin. This was just another great read on video (and audio - =
> in the past emails from you) bullet-proofing for the near future.
>
> To be honest, the consensus on the bandwidth overall in the
> bufferbloat related circles was in the 25/3 - 100/20 ballpark


To continue on this discussion of 25mbit/s (mbyte/s ?) of 4k, and 8k,
here are some more thoughts:

- about 25mbit/s bw needs for 4K:=C2=A0 hdmi cables for 4K HDR10 (high
dynamic range) are specified at 18gbit/s and not 25mbit/s (mbyte?).=C2=A0 <= br> These HDMI cables dont run IP.=C2=A0 But, supposedly, the displayed 4K imag= e
is of a higher quality if played over hdmi (presumably from a player)
than from a server=C2=A0 remote on the Internet.=C2=A0=C2=A0 To achieve par= ity, maybe
one wants to run that hdmi flow from the server with IP, and at that
point the bandwidth requirement is higher than 25mbit/s.=C2=A0 This goes ha= nd
in hand with the disc evolutions (triple-layer bluray discs of 120Gbyte capacity is the most recent; I dont see signs of that to slow).

- in some regions, the terrestrial DVB (TV on radio frequencies, with
antenna receivers, not=C2=A0 IP) run at 4K HDR10 starting this year.=C2=A0 = I dont
know what MPEG codec is it, at what mbit/s speed. But it is not over the Internet.=C2=A0 This means that probably=C2=A0 ISPs are inclined to do more= than
that 4K over the Internet, maybe 8K, to distinguish their service from
DVB.=C2=A0 The audience of these DVB streams is very wide, with cheap
one-time buy receivers (no subscription, like with ISP) already widely
available in electronics stores.
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