[Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[David Fernández]

You may find this interesting too:
https://youtu.be/WEgtFSDvOOI?si=3VKUPRkJUJ9rK_iK&t=750

Regards,

David

> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 11:32:44 -0800
> From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on
> 	the Moon
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAFvDQ9owhuBiqHpdkp4d08jdjvEaJVw=rU_MxiA9fg4s72MeSg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> This article is interesting ....
>
> https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/
>
> Hesham

Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Daniel AJ Sokolov]

Thermal Design is anything but trivial for these things.

In case you are interested, here is a good introduction to common 
mistakes in thermal design for space:

Part 1
https://nescacademy.nasa.gov/video/e496742590e044cf803644e744c7c4441d

Part 2
https://nescacademy.nasa.gov/video/3a60a62b347c4afd8f4afa64a137a5af1d

Cheers
Daniel


On 1/22/24 18:56, Joe Hamelin via Starlink wrote:
> Back at Clearwire we called those RAN in a Can.
> 
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 11:33 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
>> This article is interesting ....
>>
>>
>> https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/
>>
>> Hesham
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Joe Hamelin]

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Back at Clearwire we called those RAN in a Can.

On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 11:33 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> This article is interesting ....
>
>
> https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/
>
> Hesham
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>


-- 
--
Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474

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Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[David Lang]

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that would mean that only a portion of the moon can be covered, with lots of 
blind spots depending on terrain. Much better to put starlink satellites in 
lunar orbit.

If you have things on the moon talk to LEO satellites, they may as well talk 
directly with ground stations.

David Lang

On Mon, 22 Jan 2024, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:

> Le 22/01/2024 à 00:12, Michael Richardson via Starlink a écrit :
>> David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>      > but now that SpaceX has launched their first 6 satellites that talk 
> cellular,
>>      > how many of them would be needed to give continuous coverage of the
>>      > moon?
>>
>> Would they be in orbit of the moon, or LEO?
>
> LEO
>
> Alex
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Alexandre Petrescu]

Le 22/01/2024 à 00:12, Michael Richardson via Starlink a écrit :
> David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>      > but now that SpaceX has launched their first 6 satellites that talk cellular,
>      > how many of them would be needed to give continuous coverage of the
>      > moon?
>
> Would they be in orbit of the moon, or LEO?

LEO

Alex

>
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Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Alexandre Petrescu]

Le 22/01/2024 à 00:12, Michael Richardson via Starlink a écrit :
> Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> wrote:
>      > Can a terrestrial terminal connect with a 5G terminal on the moon via GEO?
>
> No, very unlikely.
> Except that Nokia 3310 phones have super-powers.

What would be needed for a smartphone is a more powerful power plug and 
an antenna connector.  No smartphone has accessible antenna connectors, 
even if lesser smart phones had that in the past.

With an antenna connector one could plug much bigger, powerful and 
sensitive antennas which could talk even to Mars if so they wanted.

So, rather than building these huge ears for smartphones one would use 
the existing ears that connect to smartphones by 5G.

Alex

>
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Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Alexandre Petrescu]

Le 21/01/2024 à 23:59, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink a écrit :
> Can a terrestrial terminal connect with a 5G terminal on the moon via GEO?
No, it is too far away and the smartphone does not have enough power for 
that.

A terrestrial terminal would connect to a 5G ground station, or maybe 
via a sat reflector back to a ground 5G base station, by using a 5G 
protocol.

This would then talk to a satellite on GEO, but not with a 5G protocol, 
but with an IP-over-Ethernet radio or optical link.

The GEO sat would then forward that to a Lunar orbitter, again not using 
5G protocols.  It would then land on a Moon 5G base station.  That Moon 
5G base station would use a 5G protocol to talk to  5G terminals on the 
Moon.

This IP-over-Ethernet for ground-to-GEO-to-LunarOrbitter would maybe 
involve CCSDS link layer, or maybe an SDA link layer.

A complete 3GPP architecture for 5G Earth-Moon would not be 5G, but 6G, 
because it is too late for 5G.    The architecture would be completely 
rewritten at 3GPP to acommodate that.

Alex

>
> Hesham
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 2:35 PM Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>
>     Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>         > This article is interesting ....
>
>         >
>     https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/
>
>     Probably can launch a crate of Nokia 3310 phones as terminals
>     freefloating in
>     a moon intercept orbit from a Falcon 9.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Alexandre Petrescu]

hopefully on the Moon the Nokia 3GPP network will use prefix delegation 
for IPv6 to end user. (as opposed to what 3GPP networks do on Earth, 
where they dont use DHCPv6-PD to end user).

Le 21/01/2024 à 20:32, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink a écrit :
> This article is interesting ....
>
> https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/ 
>
>
> Hesham
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[David Lang]

On Sun, 21 Jan 2024, Michael Richardson wrote:

> David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>    > but now that SpaceX has launched their first 6 satellites that talk cellular,
>    > how many of them would be needed to give continuous coverage of the
>    > moon?
>
> Would they be in orbit of the moon, or LEO?

moon

Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Steve Stroh]

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What’s interesting about radio comms on Luna is the opportunity to start
over with spectrum allocations.

With SDR it’s easy to be backwards compatible with existing AND new
generation comms systems. Very little legacy spectrum allocations to deal
with - no television spectrum or marine comms needed. Will be interesting
to see if there’s any utility to spectrum below 100 MHz with no ionosphere.

Watch for the Luna equivalent of the ITU.

Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his)
Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter - https://www.zeroretries.org
Radios are Computers - With Antennas!


On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 11:33 Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> This article is interesting ....
>
>
> https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/
>
> Hesham
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>

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Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Michael Richardson]

David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
    > but now that SpaceX has launched their first 6 satellites that talk cellular,
    > how many of them would be needed to give continuous coverage of the
    > moon?

Would they be in orbit of the moon, or LEO?

Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Michael Richardson]

Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> wrote:
    > Can a terrestrial terminal connect with a 5G terminal on the moon via GEO?

No, very unlikely.
Except that Nokia 3310 phones have super-powers.

Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[David Lang]

There are no satellites that talk 5g in GEO

but now that SpaceX has launched their first 6 satellites that talk cellular, 
how many of them would be needed to give continuous coverage of the moon? They 
could be in a much higher orbit (as there are so few users), so they shouldn't 
need the hundreds that they needed to launch before getting global coverage of 
earth.

David Lang

On Sun, 21 Jan 2024, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink wrote:

> Can a terrestrial terminal connect with a 5G terminal on the moon via GEO?
>
> Hesham
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 2:35 PM Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>    > This article is interesting ....
>>
>>    >
>> https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/
>>
>> Probably can launch a crate of Nokia 3310 phones as terminals freefloating
>> in
>> a moon intercept orbit from a Falcon 9.
>>
>

Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Hesham ElBakoury]

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Can a terrestrial terminal connect with a 5G terminal on the moon via GEO?

Hesham

On Sun, Jan 21, 2024, 2:35 PM Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:

> Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>     > This article is interesting ....
>
>     >
> https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/
>
> Probably can launch a crate of Nokia 3310 phones as terminals freefloating
> in
> a moon intercept orbit from a Falcon 9.
>

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Re: [Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Michael Richardson]

Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
    > This article is interesting ....

    > https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/

Probably can launch a crate of Nokia 3310 phones as terminals freefloating in
a moon intercept orbit from a Falcon 9.

[Starlink] Nokia is Pushing for the 1st Cellular Network on the Moon

[Hesham ElBakoury]

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This article is interesting ....

https://www.bell-labs.com/research-innovation/network-fundamentals/first-cellular-network-on-the-moon/

Hesham

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