From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com (mail-ot1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 966CF3B2A4 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 04:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id m20-20020a9d6094000000b0069caf591747so6295809otj.2 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 01:18:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1679300282; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rC3dKeqiHMmoDfq0QOiYGVGmgg2bLwuG+87MjPwXOss=; b=Xg+gGTHoZbmYA3d9tgLZkyOB7jAD6G6Diixkn4PthjeG/agqLl9cJ7m/u+bioDpjmd C8eP5kEeV5XFos2f71oAOvJfZgVqQC+6eBV2YCF4hfdafimS4lLsDciSe6slBUzphvyj XA3OX1P5/ayfzyY7YfkK4bAKRZZBk+IJ8Lk9GK1Lq8Z4/IAeUgCqy+HeQgcy5hOq1/wm xfZq2F4r89hc6NMB2v0Z4ZmY1ovX1Pzw5811S+tKKRn30AlkqK6vIhXJxgYw7Hmy2Tlb g9iWnEaDEVuwIvwBycxWiz/ePMq0Mj1tZiMYhdfY35X/jo1pYEEb0VEUlbUShrSELI6e WYYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1679300282; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=rC3dKeqiHMmoDfq0QOiYGVGmgg2bLwuG+87MjPwXOss=; b=kYk8bszpRaDTN6OCGIvQba5mT0xHCmC7sJK7tlIS/5PA8T2iYRivjW8vVzoDw1Qb58 bJOxoI9WnDudJqCtKbFVkpP0Fg6s1+HsuyDFP4Y7U9aH5NxM5xO0FY3bPQN3yYNlpqUX ec4/rRii/kCivDuZwMLmlD4fQD8oV4GWo/goRrbOp7i9/xcG6mkBsQexdBHyynmacylP KDI+2Oxn1J4Ns8zwJC23Uh2gCwOzc4gN93MjVNQTbcUy5mwynNmJrTs4HyCaJ5sfBnEp DaVcKGfpFMjzRBPx5qd1RYQ0o73hF6KBcTABUiUyY+LJtgc09aqzc0wDTEjeJcNEIktS 1u1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKV25wSA+mhejBZ3KfXg4qo901hoXh/v1FMGHrkWJjmtfhjErtwf 8rckISXB4Nj0wEt3xYfZUsmxsnawyB6MOi5qlMVMQ7Qjs54= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/zxfNiw+mqPnhzyeV3J+gAcTibBQO9Do0UmW1LMskSAW1lkJVlL1hjMcP66ihGADFnbgf5FIcFZ9MSd+KCtUE= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5605:0:b0:699:9baa:e545 with SMTP id e5-20020a9d5605000000b006999baae545mr2382423oti.0.1679300282450; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 01:18:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6358:708:b0:110:7c43:2425 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 01:18:01 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 09:18:01 +0100 Message-ID: To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] On FiWi X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 08:18:03 -0000 "lorawan will never get built out across the planet" Well, roughtly 10% of the globe is covered by cellular connectivity. I would not expect lorawan to get built across the planet, although there are IoT via satellite companies, such as Lacuna Space, using lorawan. In the map of the Lorawan Alliance website it is indicated that there are Lorawan networks all around the world. The main issue with Lorawan seems to be interferences, due to the use of unlicensed spectrum. NB-IoT does not have that problem and then it is also the work of the operator all the maintenance to keep the connectivity running. Regards, David > Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 13:40:30 -0700 > From: rjmcmahon > To: dan > Cc: Bruce Perens , Dave Taht via Starlink > , Rpm , > Sebastian Moeller , bloat > , libreqos > > Subject: Re: [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] On FiWi > Message-ID: <569691b3e7dfc57bbf98c4fc168fc6cf@rjmcmahon.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUTF-8; format=3Dflowed > > > All of the states use cases are already handled by inexpensive > lorawan >> sensors and are already covered by multiple lorawan networks in NYC >> and most urban centers in the US. There is no need for a new >> infrastructure, it=E2=80=99s already there. Not to mention NBIoT/catm >> radios. >> >> This is all just general cheapness and lack of liability keeping these >> out of widespread deployment. It=E2=80=99s not lack of tech on the marke= t >> today. > > What is the footprint of lorawan networks and what's the velocity of > growth? What's the cost per square foot both capex and operations, > maintaining & monitoring lorawan? What's that compared to the WiFi > install base, i.e. now we have train even installers and maintainers on > purpose built technology vs just use what most people know because it's > common? This all looks like ethernet, token ring, fddi, netbios, decnet, > etc. where the single approach of IP over WiFi/ethernet with fiber > fronthaul wave guides and backhauls' waveguides per the ISP seems the > effective way forward. I don't think it's in society's interest to have > so disparate networks technologies as we have learned from IP and the > internet. My guess is lorawan will never get built out across the planet > as has been done for IP. I can tell that every country is adopting IP > because they're using a free IP tool to measure their networks. > > https://sourceforge.net/projects/iperf2/files/stats/map?dates=3D2014-02-0= 6%20to%202023-03-18&period=3Ddaily > > Bob