From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oa1-x33.google.com (mail-oa1-x33.google.com [IPv6:2001:4860:4864:20::33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7D253B29E for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 10:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oa1-x33.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1880110ebe5so757341fac.3 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 07:22:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681741354; x=1684333354; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CWQksIBbhg2I9Oh6jhqej3wQPpsgofn0nItD5yfZBdw=; b=mpmSLHHkBmL99UN0nCRwHLbA9YI/rpV5VkUHWXAvujS3xG6RO80U85kQMcRjmXhgVv W/w0uXoTjELrY+5w4InjZ+zAsjrZU++wV8qtoBc46V1r8zX/boEfEBqbUw9pjhrI6uvP JKhjkkxPBLS1EU7qR1c5XkLNDtu0NBQiFi4pYa1rci952P0jD8V7xxrKoEcYiBQ3Oqn3 kNemz4nPDfrgg1iVZLe2BRhx10KUPzwRvW+TeS2pJ9j4vsYClL0kJPjq3FVHn3TXJCoA BfMdLQrpyjElglLwQqVonxgBgijgphBRJIxtClu6GQOhO26F0HkfiFpojHwyyIFXt1W2 YlRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681741354; x=1684333354; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CWQksIBbhg2I9Oh6jhqej3wQPpsgofn0nItD5yfZBdw=; b=Tfc2cEWiNQtIksMZiCRgDac/zowR8uRyU1QUG8P4rFm9Keynaann4NDdC1jspmH6/l jQI2BI6dSV0MJxJmksnaTHdoGowPKu1rROFkbxJ2/3VMR04xq7tzB/4PD+JuvDntKoyo 8hqGu44pYlXSvKejtcAcdKMCkcriT0mmkNDY4PU/zYsN11fivvVmvCZYQT187jXSQ4QA QVkE2BhFCXkmgKk1/ed/laHwrxzA5+CFIdSdK4Ws3FSKAhqX1KZBP+2lkOeqmoit6Mvr ejHNusfu77aPhBxtaJdFAoMqC7aplMQXsGRpQFGT8itrloaoIpROK5RZ4t3F3+lYqNZH zuUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fEZINSaXZDf6D6I/555aHkpVI18od52sJY+cpLrmU9sdUJ7pW+ yquuQNhTEM/R8sa7katCDSPTyEA9JUcnpzSbeTQcfhd5dzY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350aA46zMF1MzKMpQheHVqtdVRFD1utfZXZCGbqD1kNSRCxjcS8b+SXCPClIciwe1ZyblX8HFDJboOTWxJGAMQgk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:5494:b0:17b:7376:8c82 with SMTP id f20-20020a056870549400b0017b73768c82mr7240906oan.1.1681741353532; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 07:22:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6358:8813:b0:112:aa6f:321f with HTTP; Mon, 17 Apr 2023 07:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 16:22:33 +0200 Message-ID: To: starlink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Starlink] IXPs in space X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 14:22:34 -0000 Apologies in advance for any *profound* misunderstanding that could trigger any nerves, although I am grateful for all the info being shared. I will read this carefully: https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/endtoend/endtoend.pdf In the abstract, I read, at the end: "Low level mechanisms to support these functions are justified only as performance enhancements." So, every rule has its exceptions, like the PEPs for TCP performance acceleration. "Adding those anycast addresses to the satellites would be transparent to all users (assuming the satellites are operating at the IP layer, the old bent-pipe approach did not, but once you have routing in space via the laser links...)" Satellites being routers just because they have ISL does not follow. Is there any satellite nowadays doing routing in space? They do switching only (and not Ethernet switching). Because of this I proposed the idea of the so called L2 snooping. It is a hack, somehow similar to the PEPs to accelerate TCP, but in this case to accelerate DNS (not encrypted), without making satellites routers, keeping them transparent as they are now. If it has not been done before by anybody is for a good reason, maybe. Things like this did not have so much success, it seems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Routing_in_Space "DNS is an easy thing to start with compared to most others." Even in this case you are going to find a lot of issues to do it with transparent satellites, even with GEO satellites, where the gain could be bigger and things simpler than with fast moving LEO satellites. "bent pipe for normal operations doesn't mean that you can't watch for an anycast address to serve locally." This is what I was suggesting, you sniff packets in the satellite uplink and answer anycast DNS queries directly from satellite, if you see any, cutting RTT by a half. Regards, David