From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x234.google.com (mail-oi1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DE523B29D for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2023 05:07:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-oi1-x234.google.com with SMTP id i127so31635671oif.8 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2023 02:07:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Rx6wix+mlJBMmaC1GNXsrfqoHmBMgBPVWeAa5qIdxoM=; b=PTWFxW9QuBXoDqPp3LsLa86pIRel7Nnq0lGq3FRaaofQobp8kqRU4ghoBmGx0iVkxz cCCpPokMyKgNJ0b+vaw4e/TAdwn9oCa+IvlKwTQWUh5+MCk4/q416+KCtrr/7e6BFhfj PmZJN9my2aDI+yQIJbJfMroZvvTGdZa37VyUhoS+f4mlUnFL9nm5Xz3WtwM6dOVMsb80 Grfno3WNf4dRtbLtxwU5LbJzqjfjSDK1iGNuYAoIpsy3KsuTADH7asOZfoseLAkumyZd SuwMVm/9XsNh7V0ZPaxwbs7m1KXDHavYZ3yiJwDe+yZPg0Hvqia7EwskBwa/6SpmXADV 3USw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Rx6wix+mlJBMmaC1GNXsrfqoHmBMgBPVWeAa5qIdxoM=; b=ry2s2K8XEJDt1CXdDD1rMoVgPIC8eMpdK0aiGw/ptEVR3T+rFbgOILrIgplrHUcRMA 1VGvj0so+6qNRfjgEqTphGxBM99cYWzoaQLmRPKvallBOy7e+nlq+/fv/P1DU15oMuIg 20Ma5bimSUfVPS9Y+Dc8QIuME/CeEgVZIVe8Lb6l+grHXZSQFJ2Ett4WqNpc8lz7CDAk aTPZjlfiYQtmgGACcwDZTadIeqjlFLrJA5nCJ1fwz8y5KGZ+P2352o7Ah97kN73k4JLF Aqslsmg0Rkxs9YpKQl/XFuk4KJoojaugTSetWvX1Bdz1FeE8u29vHKb9zHLkPY3qdKi1 2RIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kq4d+hdyfhzme4q9F404zbCofyHI30StN0GU10lsFieadyUxy8D OyzIHAE80wYFPtgby0ELe1HIfJWJC8MNiajN7yiPnCMO0N4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsbxZICfGcBk18lKyB1cPNy2KKCf+akjNrKbk+piIVWZIyP/k3uH+u9mX72gtlyHvjK2w8sTQyIHOS9bWn+B/Q= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:de5:b0:363:19d3:70fa with SMTP id g37-20020a0568080de500b0036319d370famr2914811oic.269.1672913236305; Thu, 05 Jan 2023 02:07:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6358:7e54:b0:e0:5763:fde6 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jan 2023 02:07:15 -0800 (PST) From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2023 11:07:15 +0100 Message-ID: To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2023 10:07:17 -0000 When a user refers to "gigs" it can be also talking about the monthly data cap volume in the cell phone or mobile subscription. A user is mainly not aware of what can be done with the "gigs". You understand what you get when you get minutes of phone calls or a certain number of SMS, but "gigs" are consumed in a way the user mostly does not understand. Sometimes it is translated to a volume of WhatsApp messages, pictures, videos (in a certain resolution, DVD quality, for example), so people understand a bit what they are paying for. Language is ambiguous. Data rate in bit/s is referred as communication channel capacity by Shannon, not to speed, but speed in km/h is an analogy for information "running" in bit/s that people maybe understand better. Then, there is the people that ask you how much a file "weights" to refer to the amount of bytes it has, as if information has a kind of inertial mass. There is the technical language and then the non-technical people language. Two worlds apart, sometimes. Regards, David > Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 19:11:28 -0800 > From: "Dick Roy" > To: "'Dave Collier-Brown'" > Cc: > Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas > present > Message-ID: <15EBCC5BF2474AAB82C050259229B5FB@SRA6> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" > > > > > > _____ > > From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of > Dave Collier-Brown via Starlink > Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 6:48 PM > To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas > present > > > > I think using "speed" for "the inverse of delay" is pretty normal English= , > if technically erroneous when speaking nerd or physicist. > > [RR] I=E2=80=99ve not heard of that usage before. The units aren=E2=80= =99t commensurate > either. > > Using it for volume? Arguably more like fraudulent... > > [RR] I don=E2=80=99t think that was Bob=E2=80=99s intent. I think =E2=80= =9Cload volume=E2=80=9D was meant > to be a metaphor for =E2=80=9Cnumber of bits/bytes=E2=80=9D being transpo= rted (=E2=80=9Cby the > semi=E2=80=9D). > > That said, aren=E2=80=99t users these days educated on =E2=80=9Cgigs=E2= =80=9D which they intuitively > understand to be Gigabits per second (or Gbps)? Oddly enough, that is an > expression of =E2=80=9Cdata/information/communication rate=E2=80=9D in th= e appropriate units > with the nominal technically correct meaning. > > RR > > --dave >