From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23DD03B29E for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 12:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-79fa387fb96so438885239f.1 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:22:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1696004525; x=1696609325; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=s863G3scbEHJ7MB2FlqnyXEudxXwZYtiM1IEaB2BcPk=; b=HTG/i+LZ1OTNXgJowuVW98qOXiFhwp8FtEGYEh52LBbyntEj66QXvsDuuFG/+KrxCn l7xAz/AIXJwYqh0q7tXd2fnqBh89hauBXm2mycgBKazirk4vpqgTkoGkZVU0Pfwowieh iQiL+sulgIuZmZQyayFTRYdWAhDtqBGj/wCc1+/mvzW8O5zpsbMP39GI/geTuFfasi/j CaWMmo6zckFG2HRXnIpskLrqIxpkXStsB5i17aRcX44ww1W5b7/JJ28oSKj2/5QdspEj dIO0HFAs6CtQVBSlK94kRCcv2xd4eX0I5TJ4zXdAtu3ZU+UyuD4riDE8AXXzJ00g6CwY qeFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1696004525; x=1696609325; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=s863G3scbEHJ7MB2FlqnyXEudxXwZYtiM1IEaB2BcPk=; b=AWo7t3d1gL5RK2B/1apqnd/o1wMSt0EA1gdeqRpZrUni5d8NTncEANLxI5qOTELFBL HVWInqXyp8yY874a7jqxRMvGyqQFLobNAFYudADS5taqJV0qtSKD/sao8l5jFuiqPLnA V7NEnFWym6O7FNJDrtTKNzl6uLo983Hl5o+nqu91uqnUcwQAhjUBJtAN/QAFcwOB9fox Aj9bi9O0A/xDG3prXQeUPSmwDsprcAVpGEcbHu0vhzgEOuSFza4iELVU9mf2eKWPz0+a BrGk0bg5sbM3cEEJtyn7g/ComDAAFGrH9wmtQv1i+dxo5bSbtERzdYo/zt+FeFaE+ATQ otPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzyXtH2J++wGXkdkeO7/RSygPlKbmZ5gz4NFYPjw4QCW4YOImpF BA00K0v76gZnLiaFNb7ZPd2v/44osUPoxABsH+nMXJhx2Jz7rQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFFOagvUmgq6bMpuVROaDJaK4nTay3vZ7Y+r+X93941lBNQdvk9I0Afp8Y2Z0jojqIqPlmuaDNN9lKBsbhaNCo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:d54:b0:351:5d30:4777 with SMTP id h20-20020a056e020d5400b003515d304777mr3980972ilj.28.1696004525190; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:22:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ac0:e387:0:b0:2ee:c9fb:c4fc with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:22:04 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:22:04 +0200 Message-ID: To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] [Rpm] net neutrality back in the news X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 16:22:06 -0000 Well, never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, but I still remember the time when VoIP calls (Skype and the like) were blocked in your mobile phone Internet access. At least in Spain all mobile operators were doing it at some point. But it did not last long. Nowadays, we have subscriptions with unlimited calls and 20 GB/month for ~10 euros/month and you can do anything with the Internet connection, I have not noticed any restriction or throttling (except for the blocking of certain websites like The Pirate Bay or during the 1st October 2017 Referendum in Catalonia, when the Spanish Government blocked the access to websites about that). > Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2023 09:53:26 -0600 > From: dan > To: "Livingood, Jason" > Cc: Jonathan Morton , Dave Taht via Starlink > , Rpm , > libreqos , bloat > > Subject: Re: [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] [Rpm] net neutrality back > in the news > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 7:17=E2=80=AFAM Livingood, Jason via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> On 9/29/23, 00:54, "Jonathan Morton" > chromatix99@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > Some ISPs began to actively degrade Netflix traffic, in particular by >> refusing to provision adequate peering capacity at the nodes through whi= ch >> Netflix traffic predominated >> >> That is not true and really not worth re-litigating here. >> >> > NN regulations forced ISPs to carry Netflix traffic with reasonable >> levels of service, even though they didn't want to for purely selfish an= d >> greedy commercial reasons. >> >> NN regulations played no role whatsoever in the resolution of that >> conflict - a business arrangement was reached, just as it was in the SK >> Telecom example recently: >> https://about.netflix.com/en/news/sk-telecom-sk-broadband-and-netflix-es= tablish-strategic-partnership-to >> >> > ISPs behind L4S actively do not want a technology that works end-to-en= d >> over the general Internet. >> >> That's simply not true. As someone running an L4S field trial right now = - >> we want the technology to get the widest possible deployment and be full= y >> end-to-end. Why else would there be so much effort to ensure that ECN an= d >> DSCP marks can traverse network domain boundaries for example? Why else >> would there be strong app developer interest? What evidence do you have = to >> show that anyone working on L4S want to create a walled garden? If >> anything, it seems the opposite of 5G network slicing, which seems to me >> personally to be another 3GPP run at walled garden stuff (like IMS). >> Ultimately it is like a lot of other IETF work -- it is an interesting >> technology and we'll have to see whether it gets good adoption - the >> 'market' will decide. >> >> > They want something that can provide a domination service within their >> own walled gardens. >> >> Also not correct. And last time I checked the balance sheets of companie= s >> in these sectors - video streaming services were losing money while >> provision of internet services were financially healthy. >> >> JL >> >> >> > I think this stuff degrades into conspiracy theory often enough. While I > don't discount the possibility of collusion, I don't give these > people/groups credit enough to pull of a mass scale conspiracy either.... > If netflix is jammed down to small of a pipe at an ISP, that's more likel= y > (IMO...) disorganization or incompetence or disinterest over conspiracy. > I feel the same about government in general...