From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x230.google.com (mail-oi1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D18C3B29D for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 05:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x230.google.com with SMTP id l5so967639oif.7 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 02:10:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=WYHinrwqtIcBRAQVq6hU2s2Y8LBR5bnrZ7oGsyD9x+E=; b=Ekc4C+ffAacx457zyBCU0orpD0Qvna7cFzWeb7R7WyZVXaa2r79p2JzoaryVcrWiUc NR314wTW2tcFaTe5rrFjSpWloGQLvUCeV3xLPu49PuHxZ81CmBe8szdwlrwjgMgyAbL5 H9LJD4JdZOnG/fRvtY6/iAyA4NQLU6DKPbCcub1WY646IycXSb7lJxxHbG9He5i6L3OM rHylyScTYUp8RiHz8s2PlMZfQZ+ZlkbeQ4fPTFiVNz+G1u0EiKuJpCm/chsaBUjb2APd ypfRerW14Mcas583N/6m9N0206xW+rHhBVdN+lmLSpYBrHx+bs8+Kx3lMuCNY6q1tpwd CHrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=WYHinrwqtIcBRAQVq6hU2s2Y8LBR5bnrZ7oGsyD9x+E=; b=OSJht4vUfs2w0TgiLJq77Ayds5R4xNYUXwjY8QtMcQMx4Xb4EzKY0WWNMenqQfZkHS ZfJdFLy5P6R1Q45fd0TjFYTVA+5YUwsqNgWpK1HpgtCA6tvUtqNDBl4ZtWo8ZMXTZEie 1Gyo/qKtMLdD3qJvg4ADVR0dGg8/FTd5fU2Bvt54jFx2co1bOcda8VI8w8dyEbjA5xDB PhfLZd/h2f2EARo25V/TQ58MbRCi6tw2nrBLfS+rTANHlfgp0z/qkDT/KXPkyhaoN6E2 vwC35z/NkFa7Lsu1pvWqYqoekFytP1LA3JSwkxOY579KpPHSi3mO3ww0+bLy54NuhvXZ bpRw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf2zkclX+WfG9zMxVpCimJ94cIuXJKAZKE4hsEYOlpGV7sn6Khy2 zz5I1Nit9hqGxGdLBBw14wrvm5GIzKCtrqt8FSjG3IjXA6w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5iOsWlvhoou6YpODkVEatQ9Zvb/24M/AfaQ7f+Gcm/VYCB13TDrcwzaI6xzn25LCaZLRz9dN4DrZbGFKT6ym8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:982:b0:350:2cba:2abb with SMTP id a2-20020a056808098200b003502cba2abbmr1018038oic.71.1664442616851; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 02:10:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6358:ee98:b0:c7:38da:998a with HTTP; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 02:10:16 -0700 (PDT) From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:10:16 +0200 Message-ID: To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] It's still the starlink latency... X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 09:10:18 -0000 I made this video some time ago to illustrate the impact of latency on what can you achieve during a web browsing session depending on the latency you have, in this case MEO vs. GEO satellite connection (delay emulated with netem). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DWEl_ud4ME4E In the end, the latency is accumulated into a delay and it makes you take more time to achieve the same. This was done in the frame of the ESA MTAILS project: https://artes.esa.int/projects/mtails Off-topic: People poor performance must be first addressed, if not improved because of a bad attitude, then you lay off, but there is a whole spectrum of capabilities for people and everybody should be entitled to contribute as much as they can (and get a reward in proportion). Otherwise, nobody would employ old people or people with disabilities, just sharp and smart people in their thirties. Half of the population starts suffering cognitive decline after the age of 50... Very cruel. Regards, David > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 19:59:04 +0000 > From: Eugene Chang > To: Bruce Perens > Cc: Eugene Chang , Dave Taht > , Dave Taht via Starlink > > Subject: Re: [Starlink] It's still the starlink latency... > Message-ID: <07C46DD5-7359-410E-8820-82B319944618@alum.mit.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" > > The key issue is most people don=E2=80=99t understand why latency matters= . They > don=E2=80=99t see it or feel it=E2=80=99s impact. > > First, we have to help people see the symptoms of latency and how it impa= cts > something they care about. > - gamers care but most people may think it is frivolous. > - musicians care but that is mostly for a hobby. > - business should care because of productivity but they don=E2=80=99t kno= w how to > =E2=80=9Csee=E2=80=9D the impact. > > Second, there needs to be a =E2=80=9COMG, I have been seeing the action o= f latency > all this time and never knew it! I was being shafted.=E2=80=9D Once you h= ave this > awakening, you can get all the press you want for free. > > Most of the time when business apps are developed, =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D h= ide the impact of > poor performance (aka latency) or they hide from the discussion because t= he > developers don=E2=80=99t have a way to fix the latency. Maybe businesses = don=E2=80=99t care > because any employees affected are just considered poor performers. (In b= ad > economic times, the poor performers are just laid off.) For employees, if > they happen to be at a location with bad latency, they don=E2=80=99t know= that > latency is hurting them. Unfair but most people don=E2=80=99t know the is= sue is > latency. > > Talking and explaining why latency is bad is not as effective as showing = why > latency is bad. Showing has to be with something that has a person impact= . > > Gene > ----------------------------------- > Eugene Chang > eugene.chang@alum.mit.edu > +1-781-799-0233 (in Honolulu) >