From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3AAD3B2A4 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2024 10:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2eaa80cb4d3so19221fa.1 for ; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:46:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1717598804; x=1718203604; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=nhpOtQuHsSQmxO1kFlVZs7SZKQxzSzi00hpmwOr4C58=; b=N3lG4yS5SH2cQuFcgIdWuv9iqxafPfXiv77A4TBFWuzxhieDQYVIAXZzm21gnesCB5 q8J5h/+vsH6jvLAA7lYakvEg9qfxxgaPvEkmf3gNiOXVYjyH95qcUuZzQbGFVqHg0WUu s0kNEN1RU6KKVxVziifdLSh81Pwr6iCNfmQo80ICFYozgCO5hLuJ6Oyx7GsDvjSm2eaA +bc3RgloYNBO7N28CFC4Lrx0PCfPgStaxHjeK5ORqWybiGrQ1OM9mEUanvKfqI/fKQh2 ooOHI8/W9+PVWbyNjVapIXc3p9/1igSuelvxSGWm0U4Nz2AlxSR5h22NK19Qm/gPiDdk 2CFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1717598804; x=1718203604; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=nhpOtQuHsSQmxO1kFlVZs7SZKQxzSzi00hpmwOr4C58=; b=CwujN6InnRno2xGqjwRGD0qNFgNw8j+fYHdAs1CZQwvbX6XCcfcvjq/UzrBxa7h7ur vWTvMyFOe23R8fwEicweD2vOAuu0x1Oq1ROqKW1aUEtMqnyulMmHhW+A/g0R0QDwbwiy zgOuAoTAOpOzpu84PgJkWwk4U4VLc3BN8KdtAYwxhmgEG2pXE2k7JkwnATfM5Zv6L8Q1 1QPSP/WOlCxTihHgZETKw9SsoUmSgnYJCqOorMXvtGsSoLK6Wb6sSnJ3jDWTE35DtgB/ v3hkqtvbPTxq3LuZhU0vepgrd5H31Yb2sEZYgGDoX8VnmA0YQLl3Y92pdqhdE4qmYs+E lvaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzf6R/CzIvkehFXZ4CLxosi6MBnl1s7n2Ywr/yxiqMRRmqL26qb Zsa47wqmM5i8WgkIc76gXqZFhqs8LcimfjDhTkF9sKO8F8ghjd69uweQTfT8frVFdqf3nVruuF5 /8spk6BKABIXjP5C6U5oVHbisT7ZiDRRGCow+Zw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGYtPSVlgEUFR+o/1/uVSdfk+27PTV6p2w2nxj/XIIeSi16Un6la5wDtGeAVTr4eV/2XQDi8a0lKGIPvk63GsE= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:93c7:0:b0:2ea:8f93:a49e with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2eac7a68282mr22384321fa.36.1717598803842; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:46:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 16:46:07 +0200 Message-ID: To: starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000091e1b9061a25a26c" Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't a problem X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2024 14:46:46 -0000 --00000000000091e1b9061a25a26c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "quantum entanglement may be a path to beat the speed of light" It seems that is not going anywhere. Maybe better warp drives. Faster than light comms as a target for 7G mentioned here: https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/653fee7b042dc92df0919= 930/MnM-Trends-Wheel/960x0.jpg?format=3Djpg&width=3D1440 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarwantsingh/2023/10/30/the-mega-trends-that-w= ill-shape-our-future-world So, maybe that means that 6G will be the last G, after all, as faster than light comms seem to be impossible, because paradoxes could be created. The end of comms engineering could be in the horizon of our lifetime. Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 07:16:16 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lang To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: Gert Doering , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't a problem Message-ID: <1r928s39-s5o3-q44n-804n-11ro432210s8@ynat.uz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed" Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > Le 05/06/2024 =C3=A0 15:40, Gert Doering a =C3=A9crit : >> Hi, >> >> On Wed, Jun 05, 2024 at 03:28:45PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink > wrote: >>> well, ok. One day the satcom latency will be so low that we will not have >>> enough requirements for its use :-) >> Your disbelief in physics keeps amazing me :-) > > sorry :-) Rather than simply 'satcom' I should have said > satcom-haps-planes-drones. I dont have a name for that. you would be better off with plans that don't require beating the speed of light. Yes, quantum entanglement may be a path to beat the speed of light, but you still need the electronics to handle it, and have the speed of sound at temperatures and pressures that humans can live at as a restriction. by comparison to your 1ms latency goals, extensive AT&T phone testing decades ago showed that 100ms was the threshold where people could start to detect a delay. David Lang --00000000000091e1b9061a25a26c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"quantum entanglement may be a path to beat the = speed of light"

It seems that is not goi= ng anywhere. Maybe better warp drives.

Faster than= light comms as a target for 7G mentioned here:


So, maybe that means that 6G will be the last G, after all,= as faster than light comms seem to be impossible, because paradoxes could = be created.=C2=A0

The end of comms engineering cou= ld be in the horizon of our lifetime.


Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 07:16:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Lang <dav= id@lang.hm>
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Cc: Gert Doering <ge= rt@space.net>, starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't = a problem
Message-ID: <1r928s39-s5o3-q44n-804n-11ro432210s8@ynat.uz>=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowe= d"

Alexandre Petrescu wrote:

> Le 05/06/2024 =C3=A0 15:40, Gert Doering a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 05, 2024 at 03:28:45PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu via S= tarlink
> wrote:
>>> well, ok.=C2=A0 One day the satcom latency will be so low that= we will not have
>>> enough requirements for its use :-)
>> Your disbelief in physics keeps amazing me :-)
>
> sorry :-)=C2=A0 Rather than simply 'satcom' I should have said=
> satcom-haps-planes-drones.=C2=A0 I dont have a name for that.

you would be better off with plans that don't require beating the speed= of
light. Yes, quantum entanglement may be a path to beat the speed of light, = but
you still need the electronics to handle it, and have the speed of sound at=
temperatures and pressures that humans can live at as a restriction.

by comparison to your 1ms latency goals, extensive AT&T phone testing d= ecades
ago showed that 100ms was the threshold where people could start to detect = a
delay.

David Lang
--00000000000091e1b9061a25a26c--