From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb30.google.com (mail-yb1-xb30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EDA43B29E for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb30.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-d7f0a60a159so10939593276.0 for ; Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:14:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aterlo.com; s=google; t=1695755659; x=1696360459; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/nZRdyaa9OCE3rEEnm5DeSFT6IRXxZPdjUh84Dn4D7o=; b=MbwfMANUPVRgSPw8wtHP9cmhKsez8eeTUOgaz77LC/cN/ue4xEwBzPErHbQnPyerJ/ YsrvH5TXBfKCY8vGCEvx0BN3/iHRsty+6GN1b5QHcJ86hZXLZjTZKjHfu6kSsHOoM0dL wtRYOjbOWPfWTtsOV+p1KQE3LRWb01oU7UFMk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695755659; x=1696360459; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=/nZRdyaa9OCE3rEEnm5DeSFT6IRXxZPdjUh84Dn4D7o=; b=hCJmTYsCHzeqYIjLRSz88GCF8bQNVyRXdO0te4eygk3J09sMnXAKFvlCcBeg4KY+9b QmuvN/v5W6CBmODBxRI82TO0TI2ABQJgdxtRKniXu8YEpO+Y8iZqO3Cgr+r7mM96dOSh +GProaoaOZmpFSIe0UIrjP9Yik2VUpWQFum9ThFvb5nEpMT9kbGU1WC9/o6IJojdnOn8 hEGaTpWSr2n2o1+/wYYTc+dKwG0PKb7y+0BXoaEkD3iWzWuL3XyMOy7qUfFf14lLMRJx 9sy7ZOLseyMFP+r/T0zdkrfGG0Z9Q9TN3ZbQsd/uUU3uB6cRAk/6OYrfeBX8o6gotB3U P78g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyrUmTx9O7Y9me21jbpLoQbFxXJlQbt7b3DalLGF4QIVfvlIc37 cg4nBZUTH1R4slNyBUAlGBKApCSbXn2p2zcM1CNp/TugnMVEcKhJ9jdvPw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEfKRJYNk20gMJJsVmpuztqzNeNPenBwHxrcjIoXNMe2n39B9IWc54aiVQw+pnd+MJGZ1Ss6LFgwzNqOfPSUJk= X-Received: by 2002:a25:510:0:b0:d84:afae:96a8 with SMTP id 16-20020a250510000000b00d84afae96a8mr9353289ybf.7.1695755659466; Tue, 26 Sep 2023 12:14:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Jeremy Austin Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 11:14:08 -0800 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b57453060647e1c0" Subject: Re: [Starlink] tarana strikes back X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:14:20 -0000 --000000000000b57453060647e1c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven=E2=80=99t vetted their specific numbers; but the approach (regardin= g actual households per square mile) is consistent with mine comparing StarLink with other WISP bands. https://preseem.com/2021/06/fixed-wireless-spectrum-bands/ The upshot is that you can consider the shared medium of RF in terms of spectral density (compensating for modulation differences.) Back of the envelope and using anecdotal analysis of Tarana that we see in the field, I think it=E2=80=99s in the correct order of magnitude. The comments about Starlink using spatial reuse are legitimate =E2=80=94 no= thing is preventing it from happening eventually =E2=80=94 but their current FCC lic= ensing does not provide for this. Theoretically, we have infinite bandwidth (see Tony Kapela=E2=80=99s work on =E2=80=9CFU-MIMO=E2=80=9D), but in practice, = we have constraints. Starlink=E2=80=99s strength, as others have pointed out, is ubiquity. I sus= pect that traditional WISP technologies are still justifiable somewhere above five customers per square mile (reasonably high density, given that Alaska is < 1 !), but where that line is precisely is the difference between a viable business plan and a money sink. Jeremy Austin Sr Product Manager - Preseem On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 6:34=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Tarana, which is indeed, delivering one of the most amazing NLOS WISP > experiences I have ever seen, > just put out this white paper: > > > https://www.taranawireless.com/a-comparison-of-next-generation-fwa-vs-leo= -satellite/ > > Can anyone question these Starlink numbers for cell size, etc? > > -- > Oct 30: > https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --=20 -- Jeremy Austin Sr. Product Manager Preseem | Aterlo Networks preseem.com Book a Call: https://app.hubspot.com/meetings/jeremy548 Phone: 1-833-733-7336 x718 Email: jeremy@preseem.com Stay Connected with Newsletters & More: *https://preseem.com/stay-connected/* --000000000000b57453060647e1c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I haven=E2=80=99t vetted their specific = numbers; but the approach (regarding actual households per square mile) is = consistent with mine comparing StarLink with other WISP bands.=C2=A0
<= div dir=3D"auto">

The upshot is that you can consider the shared medium of RF in terms o= f spectral density (compensating for modulation differences.) Back of the e= nvelope and using anecdotal analysis of Tarana that we see in the field, I = think it=E2=80=99s in the correct order of magnitude.=C2=A0

The comments about Starlink using spatial reuse ar= e legitimate =E2=80=94 nothing is preventing it from happening eventually = =E2=80=94 but their current FCC licensing does not provide for this. Theore= tically, we have infinite bandwidth (see Tony Kapela=E2=80=99s work on =E2= =80=9CFU-MIMO=E2=80=9D), but in practice, we have constraints.

Starl= ink=E2=80=99s strength, as others have pointed out, is ubiquity. I suspect = that traditional WISP technologies are still justifiable somewhere above fi= ve customers per square mile (reasonably high density, given that Alaska is= < 1 !), but where that line is precisely is the difference between a vi= able business plan and a money sink.

Jeremy Austin
= Sr Product Manager - Preseem

On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 6:34=E2=80= =AFPM Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Tarana, which is indeed, delivering o= ne of the most amazing NLOS WISP
experiences I have ever seen,
just put out this white paper:

https://www.tara= nawireless.com/a-comparison-of-next-generation-fwa-vs-leo-satellite/
Can anyone question these Starlink numbers for cell size, etc?

--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/= 0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


--
--
Jeremy Austin
Sr. Product Manage= r
Preseem | Aterlo Networks

Phone: 1-833-733-73= 36 x718

Stay Connected with Newsletters & More:=C2=A0https://preseem.com/stay-connecte= d/
--000000000000b57453060647e1c0--