From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bottom.networkguild.org (bottom.networkguild.org [IPv6:2600:3c00:e000:1c6::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DDC23B2A4 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:00:39 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iconia.com; s=bottom; t=1710381638; bh=PnEhU9K6PAAb4nJbLCG0c7ck+n0FHzPEWvVhuBVJVcM=; h=From:Date:Subject:To:From; b=ZJkRKUHRzVADqqjcfICiFP9Oo9wyA9gRgDs5rMqbr09e8Ot5+MhRcJc+qRs3yNXTd S1oGZGf06Mns1y9Py6AJc1+8aZumhF/C/7OyHf8YNwvdse9WB61UCdwX8Xu7DDagw3 1DZ6EclAWOLxsO6D7X7lgXfAIsIIFYD31beCe3ig4ZVX6oGfl/50sC9bh3kOd7gDqN OzUrf/OiVLdB36o1xiTVnSFcu/wrbumh7HmIgjApqB8tddmH8CMEKqOUbWCK40m094 3C1Mp46V7mXqMeCIHAn4mBo83vIuQdPzQ4TKD/qVoC8VyurNApdcnjtAU6gAgFIZQP rHrvmrmX2cFwg== Received: from auth (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by bottom.networkguild.org (8.18.1/8.18.1/Debian-1) with ESMTPSA id 42E20a181948007 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 22:00:36 -0400 Received: by mail-qt1-f178.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-42ee33b2d58so2457561cf.3 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:00:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxRlEMJR1E+uhSztzwBWgLYJe2pXSBoJ1+KNJ2QSkWhmy+86mej QEkg38vgN/fviVA40uRINgeInyGlAFPwkzSOZcbbyZiOSE/gSdIc3xqiUfyaJZfg/VcJ4J5vWO3 XrSmqt+uHOsFr6RPKgDkrHkaV5KQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFkna4g03DVp4ynP6xBUptBbwuxEtMfswXmpQB1QJw6tTRm6rIJdfsdFoA2nUYZN1MfPxFnv6y2uQf9LUw0CNQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7dcb:0:b0:42f:29b9:6ec6 with SMTP id c11-20020ac87dcb000000b0042f29b96ec6mr423938qte.28.1710381636050; Wed, 13 Mar 2024 19:00:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 18:59:59 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: To: Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d8f27606139541a9" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 1.0.3 at bottom.networkguild.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BitDefender-Scanner: Clean, Agent: BitDefender Milter 3.1.7 on bottom.networkguild.org, sigver: 7.96310 X-BitDefender-Spam: No (0) X-BitDefender-SpamStamp: Build: [Engines: 2.17.7.1529, Dats: 871106, Stamp: 3], Multi: [Enabled, t: (0.000018,0.010149)], BW: [Enabled, t: (0.000009)], RBL DNSBL: [Enabled, Score: 0(0), t: (0.000009)], APM: [Enabled, Score: 500, t: (0.007488,0.000157), Flags: BA7B0291; NN_BEGIN_TAG_NOT_OK; NN_BIG_DEAL_VDA; NN_LEGIT_SUMM_400_WORDS; NN_LEGIT_MAILING_LIST_TO], SGN: [Enabled, t: (0.017119)], URL: [Enabled, t: (0.000311)], RTDA: [Disabled], total: 0(900) X-BitDefender-CF-Stamp: none X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.0 required=5.0 autolearn=disabled X-Spam-Report: * -100 USER_IN_WELCOMELIST User is listed in 'welcomelist_from' * -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -0.0 T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE No description available. X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on bottom.networkguild.org Subject: [Starlink] FCC Denies Starlink Low-Orbit Bid for Lower Latency (Mark Harris) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 02:00:39 -0000 --000000000000d8f27606139541a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Agency says SpaceX craft could hinder International Space Station* EXCERPT: The FCC has once again rejected a Starlink plan to deploy thousands of internet satellites in very low earth orbits (VLEO) ranging from 340 to 360 kilometers. In an order published last week, the FCC wrote: =E2=80=9CSpaceX= may not deploy any satellites designed for operational altitudes below the International Space Station,=E2=80=9D whose orbit can range as low as 370 kilometers. Starlink currently has nearly 6000 satellites orbiting at around 550 kilometers that provide internet access to over 2.5 million customers around the world. But its service is currently slower than most terrestrial fiber networks, with average latencies (the time for data to travel between origin and destination) over 30 milliseconds at best, and double that at peak times. *=E2=80=9CIf you fill that region with tens of thousands of satellites, it = would put an even bigger squeeze on them and really compromise your ability to service the space station.=E2=80=9D* =E2=80=94HUGH LEWIS, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHAMPTON, U.K. =E2=80=9CThe biggest single goal for Starlink from a technical standpoint i= s to get the mean latency below 20 milliseconds,=E2=80=9D said Elon Musk at a SpaceX= event in January. =E2=80=9CFor the quality of internet experience, this is actual= ly a really big deal. If you play video games like I sometimes do, this is also important, otherwise you lose.=E2=80=9D The easiest way to reduce latency is to simply shorten the distance the data have to travel. So in a February letter, SpaceX pleaded with the FCC to allow its VLEO constellation: =E2=80=9COperating at these lower altitude= s will enable SpaceX to provide higher-quality, lower-latency satellite service for consumers, keeping pace with growing demand for real-time applications.=E2=80=9D These now include the military use of Starlink for communications in warzones such as Ukraine. Starlink also argued that its VLEO satellites would have collision probabilities ten times lower than those in higher orbits, and be easier to deorbit at the end of their functional lives. But the FCC was having none of it. The agency had already deferred VLEO operations when it licensed Starlink operations in December 2022, and used very similar languages in its order last week: =E2=80=9CSpaceX must communi= cate and collaborate with NASA to ensure that deployment and operation of its satellites does not unduly constrain deployment and operation of NASA assets and missions, supports safety of both SpaceX and NASA assets and missions, and preserves long-term sustainable space-based communications services.=E2=80=9D Neither the FCC nor SpaceX replied to requests for comment, but the agency=E2=80=99s reasoning is probably quite simple, according to Hugh Lewi= s, professor of astronautics at the University of Southampton in the U.K. =E2= =80=9CWe don=E2=80=99t understand enough about what the risks actually are, especial= ly because the number of satellites that SpaceX is proposing is greater than the number they=E2=80=99ve already launched,=E2=80=9D he says... [...] https://spectrum.ieee.org/starlink-vleo-below-iss --=20 Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com living as The Truth is True --000000000000d8f27606139541a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agency says SpaceX craft could hinder Intern= ational Space Station
EXCERPT:
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"">
The FCC has once again rejected a Starlink plan to deploy = thousands of internet satellites in very low earth orbits (VLEO) ranging fr= om 340 to 360 kilometers. In an order published last week, the FCC wrote: = =E2=80=9CSpaceX may not deploy any satellites designed for operational alti= tudes below the International Space Station,=E2=80=9D whose orbit can range= as low as 370 kilometers.

Starlink currently has nearly 6000 satell= ites orbiting at around 550 kilometers that provide internet access to over= 2.5 million customers around the world. But its service is currently slowe= r than most terrestrial fiber networks, with average latencies (the time fo= r data to travel between origin and destination) over 30 milliseconds at be= st, and double that at peak times.

=E2=80=9CIf you fill that region with tens of thousands of satellites, = it would put an even bigger squeeze on them and really compromise your abil= ity to service the space station.=E2=80=9D
=E2=80=94HUGH LEWIS, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHAMPTON, U.K.

=E2=80=9CThe biggest sin= gle goal for Starlink from a technical standpoint is to get the mean latenc= y below 20 milliseconds,=E2=80=9D said Elon Musk at a SpaceX event in Janua= ry. =E2=80=9CFor the quality of internet experience, this is actually a rea= lly big deal. If you play video games like I sometimes do, this is also imp= ortant, otherwise you lose.=E2=80=9D

The easiest way to reduce laten= cy is to simply shorten the distance the data have to travel. So in a Febru= ary letter, SpaceX pleaded with the FCC to allow its VLEO constellation: = =E2=80=9COperating at these lower altitudes will enable SpaceX to provide h= igher-quality, lower-latency satellite service for consumers, keeping pace = with growing demand for real-time applications.=E2=80=9D These now include = the military use of Starlink for communications in warzones such as Ukraine= .

Starlink also argued that its VLEO satellites would have collision= probabilities ten times lower than those in higher orbits, and be easier t= o deorbit at the end of their functional lives.

But the FCC was havi= ng none of it. The agency had already deferred VLEO operations when it lice= nsed Starlink operations in December 2022, and used very similar languages = in its order last week: =E2=80=9CSpaceX must communicate and collaborate wi= th NASA to ensure that deployment and operation of its satellites does not = unduly constrain deployment and operation of NASA assets and missions, supp= orts safety of both SpaceX and NASA assets and missions, and preserves long= -term sustainable space-based communications services.=E2=80=9D

Neit= her the FCC nor SpaceX replied to requests for comment, but the agency=E2= =80=99s reasoning is probably quite simple, according to Hugh Lewis, profes= sor of astronautics at the University of Southampton in the U.K. =E2=80=9CW= e don=E2=80=99t understand enough about what the risks actually are, especi= ally because the number of satellites that SpaceX is proposing is greater t= han the number they=E2=80=99ve already launched,=E2=80=9D he says...
[...]

--
G= eoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com=
living as The Truth is True

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