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* [Starlink] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance
@ 2024-02-26 20:31 the keyboard of geoff goodfellow
  2024-02-27  7:51 ` [Starlink] starlink IXP peering progress Dave Taht
  2024-02-27 18:43 ` [Starlink] [NNagain] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance rjmcmahon
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow @ 2024-02-26 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Starlink,
	Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical
	aspects heard this time!

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EXCERPT:

*A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance *

Nitinder Mohan∗ Technical University of Munich Germany
Andrew E. Ferguson∗ The University of Edinburgh United Kingdom
Hendrik Cech∗ Technical University of Munich Germany
Rohan Bose Technical University of Munich Germany
Prakita Rayyan Renatin Technical University of Munich Germany
Mahesh K. Marina The University of Edinburgh United Kingdom
Jörg Ott Technical University of Munich Germany

*ABSTRACT*
In recent years, Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) mega-constellations have ushered in
a new era for ubiquitous Internet access. The Starlink network from SpaceX
stands out as the only commercial LEO network with over 2M+ customers and
more than 4000 operational satellites. In this paper, we conduct a
first-of-its-kind extensive multi-faceted analysis of Starlink performance
leveraging several measurement sources. First, based on 19.2M crowdsourced
M-Lab speed tests from 34 countries since 2021, we analyze Starlink global
performance relative to terrestrial cellular networks. Second, we examine
Starlink’s ability to support real-time latency and bandwidth-critical
applications by analyzing the performance of (i) Zoom conferencing, and
(ii) Luna cloud gaming, comparing it to 5G and fiber. Third, we perform
measurements from Starlink-enabled RIPE Atlas probes to shed light on the
last-mile access and other factors affecting its performance. Finally, we
conduct controlled experiments from Starlink dishes in two countries and
analyze the impact of globally synchronized “15-second reconfiguration
intervals” of the satellite links that cause substantial latency and
throughput variations. Our unique analysis paints the most comprehensive
picture of Starlink’s global and last-mile performance to date.

*1 INTRODUCTION *
Over the past two decades, the Internet’s reach has grown rapidly, driven
by innovations and investments in wireless access [22, 46, 47] (both
cellular and WiFi) and fiber backhaul deployment that has interconnected
the globe [3, 8, 10, 24, 77]. Yet, the emergence of Low-Earth Orbit (LEO)
satellite networking, spearheaded by ventures like Starlink [65], OneWeb
[49], and Kuiper [4], is poised to revolutionize global connectivity. LEO
networks consist of megaconstellations with thousands of satellites
orbiting at 300–2000 km altitudes, promising ubiquitous low latency
coverage worldwide. Consequently, these networks are morphing into “global
ISPs” capable of challenging existing Internet monopolies [66], bridging
connectivity gaps in remote regions [36, 69], and providing support in
disaster-struck regions with impaired terrestrial infrastructure [21]...

[...]
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.09242.pdf
via
https://twitter.com/TMFAssociates/status/1762204942297952382

-- 
Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com
living as The Truth is True

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* [Starlink] starlink IXP peering progress
  2024-02-26 20:31 [Starlink] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance the keyboard of geoff goodfellow
@ 2024-02-27  7:51 ` Dave Taht
  2024-02-27  8:02   ` [Starlink] [NNagain] " Fearghas Mckay
  2024-02-27 18:43   ` [Starlink] " Michael Richardson
  2024-02-27 18:43 ` [Starlink] [NNagain] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance rjmcmahon
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Dave Taht @ 2024-02-27  7:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow
  Cc: Starlink,
	Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical
	aspects heard this time!

One of the things I learned today was that starlink has published an
extensive guide as to how existing BGP AS holders can peer with them
to get better service. I am curious if there is a way to see how many
have peered already, how many they could actually peer with?, and
progress over time since inception.... is there a tool for that?

https://starlink-enterprise-guide.readme.io/docs/peering-with-starlink

This is increasingingly off topic and too technical for the nnagain
mailing list (aside from documenting its impact and importance for
network resilience), is there a better email list to discuss ixp
stuff?

(I will send a copy of this separately to nanog)


On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 3:32 PM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> EXCERPT:
>
> A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance
>
> Nitinder Mohan∗ Technical University of Munich Germany
> Andrew E. Ferguson∗ The University of Edinburgh United Kingdom
> Hendrik Cech∗ Technical University of Munich Germany
> Rohan Bose Technical University of Munich Germany
> Prakita Rayyan Renatin Technical University of Munich Germany
> Mahesh K. Marina The University of Edinburgh United Kingdom
> Jörg Ott Technical University of Munich Germany
>
> ABSTRACT
> In recent years, Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) mega-constellations have ushered in a new era for ubiquitous Internet access. The Starlink network from SpaceX stands out as the only commercial LEO network with over 2M+ customers and more than 4000 operational satellites. In this paper, we conduct a first-of-its-kind extensive multi-faceted analysis of Starlink performance leveraging several measurement sources. First, based on 19.2M crowdsourced M-Lab speed tests from 34 countries since 2021, we analyze Starlink global performance relative to terrestrial cellular networks. Second, we examine Starlink’s ability to support real-time latency and bandwidth-critical applications by analyzing the performance of (i) Zoom conferencing, and (ii) Luna cloud gaming, comparing it to 5G and fiber. Third, we perform measurements from Starlink-enabled RIPE Atlas probes to shed light on the last-mile access and other factors affecting its performance. Finally, we conduct controlled experiments from Starlink dishes in two countries and analyze the impact of globally synchronized “15-second reconfiguration intervals” of the satellite links that cause substantial latency and throughput variations. Our unique analysis paints the most comprehensive picture of Starlink’s global and last-mile performance to date.
>
> 1 INTRODUCTION
> Over the past two decades, the Internet’s reach has grown rapidly, driven by innovations and investments in wireless access [22, 46, 47] (both cellular and WiFi) and fiber backhaul deployment that has interconnected the globe [3, 8, 10, 24, 77]. Yet, the emergence of Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) satellite networking, spearheaded by ventures like Starlink [65], OneWeb [49], and Kuiper [4], is poised to revolutionize global connectivity. LEO networks consist of megaconstellations with thousands of satellites orbiting at 300–2000 km altitudes, promising ubiquitous low latency coverage worldwide. Consequently, these networks are morphing into “global ISPs” capable of challenging existing Internet monopolies [66], bridging connectivity gaps in remote regions [36, 69], and providing support in disaster-struck regions with impaired terrestrial infrastructure [21]...
>
> [...]
> https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.09242.pdf
> via
> https://twitter.com/TMFAssociates/status/1762204942297952382
>
> --
> Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com
> living as The Truth is True
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink



-- 
https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/2024_predictions/
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [Starlink] [NNagain] starlink IXP peering progress
  2024-02-27  7:51 ` [Starlink] starlink IXP peering progress Dave Taht
@ 2024-02-27  8:02   ` Fearghas Mckay
  2024-02-27 18:43   ` [Starlink] " Michael Richardson
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Fearghas Mckay @ 2024-02-27  8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical
	aspects heard this time!
  Cc: Dave Taht, Starlink

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 On 27 Feb 2024 at 14:51:29, Dave Taht via Nnagain <
nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> One of the things I learned today was that starlink has published an
> extensive guide as to how existing BGP AS holders can peer with them
> to get better service. I am curious if there is a way to see how many
> have peered already, how many they could actually peer with?, and
> progress over time since inception.... is there a tool for that?
>
> https://starlink-enterprise-guide.readme.io/docs/peering-with-starlink



This is just standard BGP peering over route servers. It is not BGP over
your starlink satellite service, you need to have connectivity to an
appropriate IXP.

It tells you to use Peering dB to find the appropriate locations -
https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18747

So if you connect to one of the IXPs linked on that page you can peer with
Starlink, just like another BGP network that does public peering over
routes.

The IXPs may have local data on who has been peering over the route
servers.

f

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [Starlink] [NNagain] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance
  2024-02-26 20:31 [Starlink] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance the keyboard of geoff goodfellow
  2024-02-27  7:51 ` [Starlink] starlink IXP peering progress Dave Taht
@ 2024-02-27 18:43 ` rjmcmahon
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: rjmcmahon @ 2024-02-27 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical
	aspects heard this time!
  Cc: Starlink, the keyboard of geoff goodfellow

I'm curious at what's needed by iperf here to help with connection 
timeouts.

Bob
> EXCERPT:
> 
>> A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance
>> 
>> Nitinder Mohan∗ Technical University of Munich Germany
>> Andrew E. Ferguson∗ The University of Edinburgh United Kingdom
>> Hendrik Cech∗ Technical University of Munich Germany
>> Rohan Bose Technical University of Munich Germany
>> Prakita Rayyan Renatin Technical University of Munich Germany
>> Mahesh K. Marina The University of Edinburgh United Kingdom
>> Jörg Ott Technical University of Munich Germany
>> 
>> ABSTRACT
>> In recent years, Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) mega-constellations have
>> ushered in a new era for ubiquitous Internet access. The Starlink
>> network from SpaceX stands out as the only commercial LEO network
>> with over 2M+ customers and more than 4000 operational satellites.
>> In this paper, we conduct a first-of-its-kind extensive
>> multi-faceted analysis of Starlink performance leveraging several
>> measurement sources. First, based on 19.2M crowdsourced M-Lab speed
>> tests from 34 countries since 2021, we analyze Starlink global
>> performance relative to terrestrial cellular networks. Second, we
>> examine Starlink’s ability to support real-time latency and
>> bandwidth-critical applications by analyzing the performance of (i)
>> Zoom conferencing, and (ii) Luna cloud gaming, comparing it to 5G
>> and fiber. Third, we perform measurements from Starlink-enabled RIPE
>> Atlas probes to shed light on the last-mile access and other factors
>> affecting its performance. Finally, we conduct controlled
>> experiments from Starlink dishes in two countries and analyze the
>> impact of globally synchronized “15-second reconfiguration
>> intervals” of the satellite links that cause substantial latency
>> and throughput variations. Our unique analysis paints the most
>> comprehensive picture of Starlink’s global and last-mile
>> performance to date.
>> 
>> 1 INTRODUCTION
>> Over the past two decades, the Internet’s reach has grown rapidly,
>> driven by innovations and investments in wireless access [22, 46,
>> 47] (both cellular and WiFi) and fiber backhaul deployment that has
>> interconnected the globe [3, 8, 10, 24, 77]. Yet, the emergence of
>> Low-Earth Orbit (LEO) satellite networking, spearheaded by ventures
>> like Starlink [65], OneWeb [49], and Kuiper [4], is poised to
>> revolutionize global connectivity. LEO networks consist of
>> megaconstellations with thousands of satellites orbiting at
>> 300–2000 km altitudes, promising ubiquitous low latency coverage
>> worldwide. Consequently, these networks are morphing into “global
>> ISPs” capable of challenging existing Internet monopolies [66],
>> bridging connectivity gaps in remote regions [36, 69], and providing
>> support in disaster-struck regions with impaired terrestrial
>> infrastructure [21]...
>  [...]
> 
> https://arxiv.org/pdf/2310.09242.pdf
> 
> via
> https://twitter.com/TMFAssociates/status/1762204942297952382
> 
> --
> 
> Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com
> 
> living as The Truth is True
> _______________________________________________
> Nnagain mailing list
> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [Starlink] starlink IXP peering progress
  2024-02-27  7:51 ` [Starlink] starlink IXP peering progress Dave Taht
  2024-02-27  8:02   ` [Starlink] [NNagain] " Fearghas Mckay
@ 2024-02-27 18:43   ` Michael Richardson
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Michael Richardson @ 2024-02-27 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Starlink

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Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
    > One of the things I learned today was that starlink has published an
    > extensive guide as to how existing BGP AS holders can peer with them to
    > get better service. I am curious if there is a way to see how many have
    > peered already, how many they could actually peer with?, and progress
    > over time since inception.... is there a tool for that?

    > https://starlink-enterprise-guide.readme.io/docs/peering-with-starlink

    > This is increasingingly off topic and too technical for the nnagain
    > mailing list (aside from documenting its impact and importance for
    > network resilience), is there a better email list to discuss ixp stuff?

    > (I will send a copy of this separately to nanog)

As others have said, this is about peering with Starlink's wired/gateway side.
We certainly need this, a lot of this, but I'm skeptical that many smaller or
even middle sized communities are going to see Starlink at their local IXP.

Without the space lasers, my understanding is that the downlink stations need
to be within about 800km of the users.  While that's a lot of space over
urbanized places (and covers most of "Southern" Ontario where the people
live), it's really peanuts once you get up-north.  We need those downstations
to form hubs of new IXPs.

But, this will not help with what many of us would like to see: satellite as a key
part of a multi-link service to smaller and more remote communities.  It
might include short runs of fiber or terrestial microwave to nearby
communitiies.  The goal is for each area to be resillient to events
elsewhere.
That requires being able to use Starlink to form L2 tunnels from communities
to the nearer IXPs.

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [


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-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2024-02-26 20:31 [Starlink] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance the keyboard of geoff goodfellow
2024-02-27  7:51 ` [Starlink] starlink IXP peering progress Dave Taht
2024-02-27  8:02   ` [Starlink] [NNagain] " Fearghas Mckay
2024-02-27 18:43   ` [Starlink] " Michael Richardson
2024-02-27 18:43 ` [Starlink] [NNagain] A Multifaceted Look at Starlink Performance rjmcmahon

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