[Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[Hesham ElBakoury]

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I appreciate your input and pointets to publications regarding how to
reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint of satellites network.

Thanks
Hesham

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Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[David Fernández]

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Hi Hesham,

You may check this report, in case you missed it, for ideas on how to
reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint, in general for the
audiovisual sector, but satellite distribution of video may be considered
there:
https://en.arcep.fr/news/press-releases/view/n/environment-071024.html

You may be interested in following this IETF group, too:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/green/about

This workshop already happened, but you may get something from there too,
about the development of energy neutral devices:
https://6g-conference.dnac.org/2024/en-iot-2024

Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device fabrication
(e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them last long and being
modular and repairable may be the best way to reduce the carbon footprint
(and the increasing amount of e-waste).

Regards,

David

Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:16:11 -0800
From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print
        of      Satellites Network
Message-ID:
        <CAFvDQ9p6R9wdGFri3YPdU5=25FjyD6iN5yT+oW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I appreciate your input and pointers to publications regarding how to
reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint of satellites network.

Thanks
Hesham

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Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[David Lang]

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David Fernández wrote:

> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device fabrication
> (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them last long and being
> modular and repairable may be the best way to reduce the carbon footprint
> (and the increasing amount of e-waste).

We are at the stage now where a very significant limitation on the lifetime of 
electronics is the supported lifetime of the software. For most phones/tablets 
this is only 3 years (less if you don't buy them as soon as they come out)

David Lang

Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[Ulrich Speidel]

Ah yes. About 10 years ago, we tried to lower our carbon footprint a 
little by joining my local powerline company's pilot solar project. The 
deal: A small amount upfront, then a monthly fixed-price lease for a 
12.5 year contract, and we get a 5 kWp solar array, inverter, and 
battery. We own all the power it produces - they get the benefit of us 
helping them with their peak load shedding (we've got a lot of infill 
housing, making life harder for those poor feeder cables from the 
1960's). The whole system is supplied by a US company and controlled via 
an AWS server.

The first year was an odyssee: The system wouldn't supply us in the 
morning, instead charging the battery to the brim, just to do an 
emergency power dump into the grid during the afternoon, now draining 
the battery so we had to bring in power again at night. Why? The control 
software didn't turn the inverter on until power usage in the house 
exceeded 800W, so it could avoid inefficient conversion. Our base load 
was 500W. Well, eventually I convinced them that an inverter running at 
only 85% efficiency was still going to let me use more of my own 
electrons than one that was hardly running at all, and the problem was 
fixed by giving me a custom schedule. And I'd tried to be smart to trim 
my house down to minimal power use before we got the solar...

Fast forward May this year. Web UI starts showing strange system 
behaviour. Being a cranky customer, the support engineer at the lines 
company knows to take my complaints seriously and resets our system. 
Problem continues. He asks for patience. Then he indicates that an 
announcement is forthcoming. They've lost contact with the company in 
the US and nobody is processing support tickets there. Turns out the 
company went broke and fired all its staff. Our lines company have 200 
units in town like ours. They're now unsupported and, for safety 
reasons, need to be turned off. A long wait for a solution commences. 
They're working with the receiver and other customers to see what can be 
salvaged. To no avail.

So they've pulled out, to their credit quite graciously. We get to keep 
the panels (ours were swapped against new and slightly more powerful 
ones the other year under warranty), they take battery and inverter, 
never to be seen again, and pay us a few hundred bucks for early 
termination. I get to build my own system - yay!

What it shows is that building systems for a 10+ year lifespan isn't 
trivial when they rely on large software components that need to be 
maintained, patched, bloats and ages. I mean, who doesn't love a smart 
home? But a lot of today's smart homes will be tomorrow's homes with the 
technical equivalent of dementia.

On 29/11/2024 1:58 am, David Lang via Starlink wrote:
> David Fernández wrote:
>
>> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device fabrication
>> (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them last long and 
>> being
>> modular and repairable may be the best way to reduce the carbon 
>> footprint
>> (and the increasing amount of e-waste).
>
> We are at the stage now where a very significant limitation on the 
> lifetime of electronics is the supported lifetime of the software. For 
> most phones/tablets this is only 3 years (less if you don't buy them 
> as soon as they come out)
>
> David Lang
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

-- 
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)

The University of Auckland
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************

Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[Hesham ElBakoury]

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Thanks David!
Hesham

On Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 2:40 AM David Fernández <davidfdzp@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Hesham,
>
> You may check this report, in case you missed it, for ideas on how to
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint, in general for the
> audiovisual sector, but satellite distribution of video may be considered
> there:
> https://en.arcep.fr/news/press-releases/view/n/environment-071024.html
>
> You may be interested in following this IETF group, too:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/green/about
>
> This workshop already happened, but you may get something from there too,
> about the development of energy neutral devices:
> https://6g-conference.dnac.org/2024/en-iot-2024
>
> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device fabrication
> (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them last long and being
> modular and repairable may be the best way to reduce the carbon footprint
> (and the increasing amount of e-waste).
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:16:11 -0800
> From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print
>         of      Satellites Network
> Message-ID:
>         <CAFvDQ9p6R9wdGFri3YPdU5=
> 25FjyD6iN5yT+oW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I appreciate your input and pointers to publications regarding how to
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint of satellites network.
>
> Thanks
> Hesham
>

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Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[Hesham ElBakoury]

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Hi David,

Is there an english version of the document: 
Arcom-arcep-ademe-etude-impact-environnemental-des-usages-audiovisuels.pdf 
<https://www.arcom.fr/sites/default/files/2024-10/Arcom-arcep-ademe-etude-impact-environnemental-des-usages-audiovisuels.pdf>

Thanks

Hesham

On 11/28/2024 2:39 AM, David Fernández wrote:
> Hi Hesham,
>
> You may check this report, in case you missed it, for ideas on how to 
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint, in general for the 
> audiovisual sector, but satellite distribution of video may be 
> considered there:
> https://en.arcep.fr/news/press-releases/view/n/environment-071024.html
>
> You may be interested in following this IETF group, too:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/green/about
>
> This workshop already happened, but you may get something from there 
> too, about the development of energy neutral devices:
> https://6g-conference.dnac.org/2024/en-iot-2024
>
> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device 
> fabrication (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them 
> last long and being modular and repairable may be the best way to 
> reduce the carbon footprint (and the increasing amount of e-waste).
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:16:11 -0800
> From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print
>         of Satellites Network
> Message-ID:
>         
> <CAFvDQ9p6R9wdGFri3YPdU5=25FjyD6iN5yT+oW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com 
> <mailto:25FjyD6iN5yT%2BoW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I appreciate your input and pointers to publications regarding how to
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint of satellites network.
>
> Thanks
> Hesham

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Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[David Fernández]

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Hi Hesham,

Not really, but this one in English is referencing it and somehow
reusing/summarizing it.
https://dvb.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/S100_Study-Mission-on-Energy-Aware-Delivery-and-Consumption_Nov-2023.pdf

Regards,

David

On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 at 15:36, Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> Is there an english version of the document:
> Arcom-arcep-ademe-etude-impact-environnemental-des-usages-audiovisuels.pdf
> <https://www.arcom.fr/sites/default/files/2024-10/Arcom-arcep-ademe-etude-impact-environnemental-des-usages-audiovisuels.pdf>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
> On 11/28/2024 2:39 AM, David Fernández wrote:
>
> Hi Hesham,
>
> You may check this report, in case you missed it, for ideas on how to
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint, in general for the
> audiovisual sector, but satellite distribution of video may be considered
> there:
> https://en.arcep.fr/news/press-releases/view/n/environment-071024.html
>
> You may be interested in following this IETF group, too:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/green/about
>
> This workshop already happened, but you may get something from there too,
> about the development of energy neutral devices:
> https://6g-conference.dnac.org/2024/en-iot-2024
>
> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device fabrication
> (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them last long and being
> modular and repairable may be the best way to reduce the carbon footprint
> (and the increasing amount of e-waste).
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:16:11 -0800
> From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print
>         of      Satellites Network
> Message-ID:
>         <CAFvDQ9p6R9wdGFri3YPdU5=
> 25FjyD6iN5yT+oW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I appreciate your input and pointers to publications regarding how to
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint of satellites network.
>
> Thanks
> Hesham
>
>

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Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[Hesham ElBakoury]

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Thanks David!
Hesham

On Thu, Nov 28, 2024, 7:11 AM David Fernández <davidfdzp@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Hesham,
>
> Not really, but this one in English is referencing it and somehow
> reusing/summarizing it.
>
> https://dvb.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/S100_Study-Mission-on-Energy-Aware-Delivery-and-Consumption_Nov-2023.pdf
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 at 15:36, Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> Is there an english version of the document:
>> Arcom-arcep-ademe-etude-impact-environnemental-des-usages-audiovisuels.pdf
>> <https://www.arcom.fr/sites/default/files/2024-10/Arcom-arcep-ademe-etude-impact-environnemental-des-usages-audiovisuels.pdf>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Hesham
>> On 11/28/2024 2:39 AM, David Fernández wrote:
>>
>> Hi Hesham,
>>
>> You may check this report, in case you missed it, for ideas on how to
>> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint, in general for the
>> audiovisual sector, but satellite distribution of video may be considered
>> there:
>> https://en.arcep.fr/news/press-releases/view/n/environment-071024.html
>>
>> You may be interested in following this IETF group, too:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/green/about
>>
>> This workshop already happened, but you may get something from there too,
>> about the development of energy neutral devices:
>> https://6g-conference.dnac.org/2024/en-iot-2024
>>
>> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device fabrication
>> (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them last long and being
>> modular and repairable may be the best way to reduce the carbon footprint
>> (and the increasing amount of e-waste).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:16:11 -0800
>> From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
>> To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>> Subject: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print
>>         of      Satellites Network
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAFvDQ9p6R9wdGFri3YPdU5=
>> 25FjyD6iN5yT+oW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I appreciate your input and pointers to publications regarding how to
>> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint of satellites network.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Hesham
>>
>>

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Re: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print of Satellites Network

[Ulrich Speidel]

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Like many others, the august institution that I work for has set itself 
the goal to score better in the international university rankings.

There are brownie points in rankings these days when it comes to 
sustainability. You just wish that university management and those who 
do the ranking actually understood sustainability.

So at a lot of universities, they have discovered (or at least think 
that they have) that exams on paper are bad, and that going online is 
environmentally friendly. That's because that paper requires a lot of 
trees to make (ignoring for a moment that many modern papers contain 
large amount of recycled paper).

On the Internet, we learn that making 1 metric ton of paper causes about 
1 ton of CO2 emissions. Wow that's a lot. Now the exam scripts for my 
students are usually under 20 pages A4. An A4 page weighs about 5 grams. 
So my entire exam is 100 g or less in CO2 emissions from paper. Add 
another 20 g CO from printing.

Now my experience is that if you let students sit online exams, around 
half of the class will cheat. These days, you do that with ChatGPT. Now 
let's assume there are 10 questions in the exam, and each takes two 
queries to ChatGPT to get right. I've asked ChatGPT how much CO2 a query 
to it produces, and it says between 5 and 20 grams. So we'll get between 
100 and 400 g of CO2 here. Say 250 g on average. That's around 125 g per 
student, slightly more than producing a printed exam produced. Add to 
that the power used by student devices, and the paper exam looks 
positively environmentally friendly again.

On 28/11/2024 11:39 pm, David Fernández via Starlink wrote:
> Hi Hesham,
>
> You may check this report, in case you missed it, for ideas on how to 
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint, in general for the 
> audiovisual sector, but satellite distribution of video may be 
> considered there:
> https://en.arcep.fr/news/press-releases/view/n/environment-071024.html
>
> You may be interested in following this IETF group, too:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/green/about
>
> This workshop already happened, but you may get something from there 
> too, about the development of energy neutral devices:
> https://6g-conference.dnac.org/2024/en-iot-2024
>
> Considering that most of the CO2 is emitted during a device 
> fabrication (e.g. 79% for laptops, according to Atos), making them 
> last long and being modular and repairable may be the best way to 
> reduce the carbon footprint (and the increasing amount of e-waste).
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 11:16:11 -0800
> From: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: [Starlink] Reducing Eenergy Consumption and Carbon Foot Print
>         of Satellites Network
> Message-ID:
>         
> <CAFvDQ9p6R9wdGFri3YPdU5=25FjyD6iN5yT+oW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com 
> <mailto:25FjyD6iN5yT%2BoW7XkgCZk77bow@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I appreciate your input and pointers to publications regarding how to
> reduce energy consumption and carbon footprint of satellites network.
>
> Thanks
> Hesham
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

-- 
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)

The University of Auckland
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz 
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************



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