From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com (mail-ed1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E44513B29E for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 08:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5334d78c5f6so3737711a12.2 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 05:09:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1695470952; x=1696075752; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NV3uX7ajOEWmMvpgHVj4zizlXdbiTOQlhu+G08gJJHM=; b=Cf67GraX51o6vNyepnQ+rb9Se/nLDMoEMk7sC6Nv6v7ChGguoR9wLZvPN3jWrd064J ox9z52nA5yASuF+TkJtkSUSyWayGOpQUUuGQOftY0I/jpG63ULTrG6s8ev+D8tphlHu4 G+nAhNc3pFpftcgV4pTwYkkuCL0Z+G1r3d9UKBrE6Bcgw8BGLhXThYHZxdaDSGQs73v3 XEpGrZYJBvIL+FgMgz43q01zWqjrCHG8o1FAU/3PA1lvudPiuqfSI8Zo2LWjlMv7BK+6 t06U37/rF5HasMk9vuvy9D3ODw+bod0Kl+B7W3aBbNS4jOgqyUmg4temFH5iaOAf3+TU O+gQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695470952; x=1696075752; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=NV3uX7ajOEWmMvpgHVj4zizlXdbiTOQlhu+G08gJJHM=; b=wH160rV4ttohU4fh+Axsq37OU0/RE7yraDPf2KKeJDxZ5am5do/LpsGcKYnyslPw4J hPyOYg/iPg3vSwyCTyg0JBEmE09YCBLpsiL4+bb7ww2wda6u0a1IHFP3OZAlSisB8ZY1 h3xDIPk+na7E1uSz++grn2gO4peLLmP0QCbYUYB8dW6BJa1VxsiM4lnpo9ymT5GY8YC2 VmmgXDkwmp754zEApMYxB1+P81Vnu5tQCoAfxV5nEIYTV6OVTWVTTvhk4D5K7AoTJi0N 32DsV9EV/iNGUm4ytcti10KfC1+5bdu+etwwoTvTRUJNvhDeD5beTRGaH0cIKts7HLyk NiHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwIPJJHMyMxWTVPbn70NrRWHtEX/F0HwpnSFyALltdkYQ9XscgV uKQuAUPPcfwgRlwTrfTcs3Q7BptD0djuWFG1I6lY7GUt12c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHQDwGy4yDTgwgFxM8ieMM0UOKTowgLsGt29dvRnnd24Ajn49IXT0Z+wly/2VOv/YHN15bMc3lPR2fWsmYEufc= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:d807:0:b0:525:6d6e:ed53 with SMTP id v7-20020aa7d807000000b005256d6eed53mr1437078edq.27.1695470951771; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 05:09:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9d96e8d6-8a40-4353-b7a3-49881742f1a7@auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: From: Hesham ElBakoury Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 05:08:57 -0700 Message-ID: To: Noel Butler Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ceb16b06060597e0" Subject: Re: [Starlink] APNIC56 last week X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 12:09:14 -0000 --000000000000ceb16b06060597e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In this Geoff blog ( https://blog.apnic.net/2022/05/04/the-transition-to-ipv6-are-we-there-yet/) figure 1 shows the increasing IPv6 uptake since 2012 and figure 3 shows the increasing price of IPv4 addresses. Geoff concluded by saying that he does not know when the IPv6 transition will end. Hesham On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 6:33 PM Noel Butler via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > On 20/09/2023 11:13, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: > > > > As vs Geoffs presentation on QUIC eating the universe in terms of traffic > volume, and the world becoming a giant content distribution network, I > still hold, that the internet is a communications network, and that despite > content moving ever closer to the edges, more private content, and > connecting people to people, and vpns to corporations, will remain an > important use case. Ssh as one example, still holds the underpinnings of > the network together, and is very low traffic volume, and there is no such > thing as a "voip caching server". Also, big providers of replicated > content, such as steam, are experimenting with bittorrent-like techniques > again. QUIC makes torrent extremely feasible once again. > > > Despite my high level of respect for Geoff, he, and others like him, often > talk things up to push things their way of thinking, we only need look at > the FUD they came out with in mid 90's about IPv4's imminent demise giving > it three to five years before depletion, and here we are 30 years later and > it is still the most dominant transport protocol by a long long mile > despite allegedly running out only a few years ago and not in early 2000's > as they tried to claim. (Even today there are still reserve stocks on /24's > for newbies from some regions, and the bigger networks have years of > stockpiled addresses in reserve). > > It's also like the local water board here who last week came out saying a > whopping 70% of people surveyed said they'd drink recycled water, of course > it was the local water board that conducted this alleged survey, because > >90% of the more independent polling shows a totally different story. > > "Ohh, everybody's doing it" "must be safe" "we should do it" ... nah... > TCP isn't going anywhere, nor is UDP, not in my lifetime anyway :) > > Cheers > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --000000000000ceb16b06060597e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In this Geoff blog (https://blog.apnic.net/20= 22/05/04/the-transition-to-ipv6-are-we-there-yet/) figure 1 shows the i= ncreasing IPv6 uptake since 2012 and figure 3 shows the increasing price of= IPv4 addresses. Geoff concluded by saying that he does not know when the I= Pv6 transition will end.

Hesha= m

On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 6:33 PM Noel Butler via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

On 20/09/2023 11:13, Dave Taht = via Starlink wrote:

=C2=A0

As vs=C2=A0Geoffs presentation on QUIC=C2=A0eating the universe in ter= ms of traffic volume, and the world becoming a giant content distribution n= etwork, I still hold, that the internet is a communications network, and th= at despite content moving ever closer to the edges, more private content, a= nd connecting people to people, and vpns to corporations, will remain an im= portant use case. Ssh as one example, still holds the underpinnings of the = network together, and is very low traffic volume, and there is no such thin= g as a "voip caching server". Also, big providers of replicated c= ontent, such as steam, are experimenting with bittorrent-like techniques ag= ain. QUIC makes torrent extremely feasible once again.=C2=A0


Despite my high level of respect for Geoff, he, and others like him, oft= en talk things up to push things their way of thinking, we only need look a= t the FUD they came out with in mid 90's about IPv4's imminent demi= se giving it three to five years before depletion, and here we are 30 years= later and it is still the most dominant transport protocol by a long long = mile despite allegedly =C2=A0running out only a few years ago=C2=A0and not = in early 2000's as they tried to claim.=C2=A0(Even today there are stil= l reserve stocks on /24's for newbies from some regions, and the bigger= networks have years of stockpiled addresses in reserve).

It's also like the local water board here who last week came out say= ing a whopping 70% of people surveyed said they'd drink recycled water,= of course it was the local water board that conducted this alleged survey,= because >90% of the more independent polling shows a totally different = story.

"Ohh, everybody's doing it" =C2=A0"must be safe"= "we should do it" =C2=A0... nah... TCP isn't going anywhere,= nor is UDP, not in my lifetime anyway :)

Cheers


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