From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8A653B29E for ; Sat, 9 Sep 2023 00:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-41243a67b62so18437911cf.2 for ; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:54:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1694235243; x=1694840043; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zpV3o0GHCCzHEhmNlEx2ixJ65kBuIR70l6YWN5XBBr4=; b=AvwEjP3okzYar+AT/Aku4k1NkayhbJ1LggvVcfamiejCaQZ0Dl4weTjdJ+1XjXKDWb 3DwPN0CZDXG1hldvgYsXwegtX7GNswdsBgZl8qIf4mdhrYCB5iytFumwcF0JrVMMROtd j8qzSWhriy7nYTnBM4NDSImPp5Vapz9O9Qu5rXElw1F1Lg+7gx8r5OWp/YseDjznpURj P9JW44HsO6149Htx474v4X3h+q0DTTcLMBxlVuUe+OKL64Boz7fNITZe45SiiTuRRb+b PPF5Qi0A/ywwjmj7/WrNauLcnpcWkGgUVqm69jnAdlFGrqw/wtqSkfAuNZ1mv6IbPUDd 75Dg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694235243; x=1694840043; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zpV3o0GHCCzHEhmNlEx2ixJ65kBuIR70l6YWN5XBBr4=; b=rT7c4+8+EjnzQ0ILDlWR+r+eDvBbjihHGx8g74+BU0tOmM9Dr70nTgC/oM/HZK7a7K jfGT1a7cg0+fTH6sFe7o/lBqBLQR8r4z1QqQu2OQDzCG7DYPxSU22nMC82Nx7iYeFgiQ dNAmV6XIlLQEJB9mnCsaRxWT5S1+mxpSuxTHAzvp8z5vozsB38ry+uOs0bMoiNvpVDoo tdRUGp+5gOo1qruHdDwGy/tAb0S9IAsmBKkR4ZS57v/tZLXO/S/FeSkHVJLHxip1F7xQ tJyKzUZJ8nMGBJSi2YAwKesjtcBkbLn0GGmMz/PXcxJ9PFwibKtzGQXm6w+QRrr3P5aW hcGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzLLHYS84u+eO/JnwQHLmIpfDJ7wOIIMzqiKZ5F4Ogt7T6TOYV8 L0wUfST16gZ4DNuCHrFpUvzWTCXbtYmoOFME8YM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFZSf8IvoRoTFTKW2LI5mKyM6Kuvpil64uhZZBF+7A63tZbYWruaFvziJNnhhA/Sv+feaKrP43n/ZKZdkFjsgY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:1756:b0:40f:ef6d:1a31 with SMTP id l22-20020a05622a175600b0040fef6d1a31mr5170806qtk.13.1694235243181; Fri, 08 Sep 2023 21:54:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <65n6n1rq-589r-993r-nro5-55p3pq465o51@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: <65n6n1rq-589r-993r-nro5-55p3pq465o51@ynat.uz> From: Hesham ElBakoury Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2023 21:53:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: Larry Press , Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d5fa5c0604e5e140" Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Reverse Engineering X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2023 04:54:03 -0000 --000000000000d5fa5c0604e5e140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is what is in the MIT Technology Review report: "*When the idea was first proposed in 2020 , executives at SpaceX were open to the idea, says Humphreys. Then word came from on high. =E2=80=9CElon told the leaders we spoke to: every other LEO [= low Earth orbit] communications network has gone into bankruptcy,=E2=80=9D Hump= hreys told MIT Technology Review. =E2=80=9CAnd so we [SpaceX] have to focus compl= etely on staying out of bankruptcy. We cannot afford any distractions.*=E2=80=9D Heshamn On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 9:15 PM David Lang wrote: > On Sat, 9 Sep 2023, Larry Press via Starlink wrote: > > > Why does Elon Musk object to the use of Starlink for navigation? > > He hasn't said, but I suspect a couple reasons > > limitations on what SpaceX can do, orbital changes, protocol changes, etc > could all affect people depending on something that Starlink wasn't > intending to > offer in the first place > > liability, what happens when the navigation gives the wrong location > because > of a change Starlink made. > > to use the satellite signals, you not only need the timing, you need > rather > precise orbital information. If the satellites are modifying their orbits > autonomously, how does that information get to everyone? > > For normal Starlink purposes, the satellites determine which sat is > covering > what area on the ground and the ground stations can react to the differen= t > sats > that they hear (beaming back on reciprical bearings or the beam info can > be in > the handshake) > > but navigation requires getting the signals from many sats at once to wor= k > out > the timing between them > > note, I have no inside info, this is just my version of logical guessing. > > David Lang > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --000000000000d5fa5c0604e5e140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is what is in the MIT Technology Review report:
"When the idea was=C2=A0first proposed in 2020, executi= ves at SpaceX were open to the idea, says Humphreys. Then word came from on= high. =E2=80=9CElon told the leaders we spoke to: every other LEO [low Ear= th orbit] communications network has gone into bankruptcy,=E2=80=9D Humphre= ys told MIT Technology Review. =E2=80=9CAnd so we [SpaceX] have to focus co= mpletely on staying out of bankruptcy. We cannot afford any distractions.=E2=80=9D

Heshamn<= /div>

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 9:15 PM David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2023, Larry Press via Starlink wrote:

> Why does Elon Musk object to the use of Starlink for navigation?

He hasn't said, but I suspect a couple reasons

limitations on what SpaceX can do, orbital changes, protocol changes, etc <= br> could all affect people depending on something that Starlink wasn't int= ending to
offer in the first place

liability, what happens when the navigation gives the wrong location becaus= e
of a change Starlink made.

to use the satellite signals, you not only need the timing, you need rather=
precise orbital information. If the satellites are modifying their orbits <= br> autonomously, how does that information get to everyone?

For normal Starlink purposes, the satellites determine which sat is coverin= g
what area on the ground and the ground stations can react to the different = sats
that they hear (beaming back on reciprical bearings or the beam info can be= in
the handshake)

but navigation requires getting the signals from many sats at once to work = out
the timing between them

note, I have no inside info, this is just my version of logical guessing.
David Lang

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