* Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
@ 2023-06-23 16:12 David Fernández
2023-06-23 16:14 ` Hesham ElBakoury
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: David Fernández @ 2023-06-23 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: starlink
I think that paper has already been discussed in this list. It
appeared in the news a while ago:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/24/starlink_signal_decoded_for_use
Regards,
David
> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 06:17:08 -0700
> From: Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com>
> To: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band
> Downlink
> Message-ID:
> <CAO0-hXar-KaB=p=HGeGe39vAKTeG5RHBxSgioccOj+R4Nt7yeA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Most interesting:
>
> " VIII. CONCLUSIONS We have developed and applied a blind signal
> identification technique to uncover the frequency- and time-domain
> structure of the Starlink Ku-band downlink signal. We further identified
> four synchronization sequences that can be used to *passively exploit*
> Starlink signals for pseudorange-based positioning, navigation, and timing
> (PNT), and explicitly evaluated two of these. The results in this paper
> illuminate the *path to use of Starlink signals as a backup to traditional
> GNSS* for PNT."
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 6:09 AM Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
>>
>> Here's the PDF.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 2:55 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone looked at this paper (Signal Structure of the Starlink
>>> Ku-Band Downlink) by Todd E. Humphreys ? This paper will be published in
>>> IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems. Are there other
>>> research efforts which try to do the same?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Hesham
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
2023-06-23 16:12 [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink David Fernández
@ 2023-06-23 16:14 ` Hesham ElBakoury
2023-06-23 16:50 ` contact
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hesham ElBakoury @ 2023-06-23 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: David Fernández; +Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2491 bytes --]
What was Elon Musk reaction to this research?
Hesham
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 9:12 AM David Fernández via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> I think that paper has already been discussed in this list. It
> appeared in the news a while ago:
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/24/starlink_signal_decoded_for_use
>
> Regards,
>
> David
>
> > Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 06:17:08 -0700
> > From: Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com>
> > To: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
> > Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band
> > Downlink
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAO0-hXar-KaB=p=
> HGeGe39vAKTeG5RHBxSgioccOj+R4Nt7yeA@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Most interesting:
> >
> > " VIII. CONCLUSIONS We have developed and applied a blind signal
> > identification technique to uncover the frequency- and time-domain
> > structure of the Starlink Ku-band downlink signal. We further identified
> > four synchronization sequences that can be used to *passively exploit*
> > Starlink signals for pseudorange-based positioning, navigation, and
> timing
> > (PNT), and explicitly evaluated two of these. The results in this paper
> > illuminate the *path to use of Starlink signals as a backup to
> traditional
> > GNSS* for PNT."
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 6:09 AM Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
> >>
> >> Here's the PDF.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 2:55 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
> >> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Has anyone looked at this paper (Signal Structure of the Starlink
> >>> Ku-Band Downlink) by Todd E. Humphreys ? This paper will be published
> in
> >>> IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems. Are there other
> >>> research efforts which try to do the same?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Hesham
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Starlink mailing list
> >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
2023-06-23 16:14 ` Hesham ElBakoury
@ 2023-06-23 16:50 ` contact
2023-06-23 16:56 ` David Fernández
2023-06-23 16:59 ` Hesham ElBakoury
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: contact @ 2023-06-23 16:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hesham ElBakoury; +Cc: David Fernández, Dave Taht via Starlink
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/html, Size: 5013 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
2023-06-23 16:50 ` contact
@ 2023-06-23 16:56 ` David Fernández
2023-06-23 16:59 ` Hesham ElBakoury
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: David Fernández @ 2023-06-23 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: starlink
This may be a reaction, but not from Elon, of course:
https://www.esa.int/Applications/Navigation/Industry_invited_to_bid_for_low-Earth_orbit_satnav_demo
2023-06-23 18:50 GMT+02:00, contact@olegkutkov.me <contact@olegkutkov.me>:
>
> No reaction from SpaceX or Elon
>
>> On 23 Jun 2023, at 19:15, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink
>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> What was Elon Musk reaction to this research?
>>
>> Hesham
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 9:12 AM David Fernández via Starlink
>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that paper has already been discussed in this list. It
>>> appeared in the news a while ago:
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/24/starlink_signal_decoded_for_use
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> > Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 06:17:08 -0700
>>> > From: Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com>
>>> > To: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
>>> > Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band
>>> > Downlink
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> >
>>> > <CAO0-hXar-KaB=p=HGeGe39vAKTeG5RHBxSgioccOj+R4Nt7yeA@mail.gmail.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>> >
>>> > Most interesting:
>>> >
>>> > " VIII. CONCLUSIONS We have developed and applied a blind signal
>>> > identification technique to uncover the frequency- and time-domain
>>> > structure of the Starlink Ku-band downlink signal. We further
>>> > identified
>>> > four synchronization sequences that can be used to *passively exploit*
>>> > Starlink signals for pseudorange-based positioning, navigation, and
>>> > timing
>>> > (PNT), and explicitly evaluated two of these. The results in this paper
>>> > illuminate the *path to use of Starlink signals as a backup to
>>> > traditional
>>> > GNSS* for PNT."
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 6:09 AM Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
>>> >>
>>> >> Here's the PDF.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 2:55 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
>>> >> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Has anyone looked at this paper (Signal Structure of the Starlink
>>> >>> Ku-Band Downlink) by Todd E. Humphreys ? This paper will be published
>>> >>> in
>>> >>> IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems. Are there
>>> >>> other
>>> >>> research efforts which try to do the same?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hesham
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Starlink mailing list
>>> >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> --
>>> >> Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
2023-06-23 16:50 ` contact
2023-06-23 16:56 ` David Fernández
@ 2023-06-23 16:59 ` Hesham ElBakoury
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hesham ElBakoury @ 2023-06-23 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: contact; +Cc: David Fernández, Dave Taht via Starlink
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Professor Todd mentions that Elon had a tweet about it last Oct. But I
have not seen it.
Hesham
Hesham
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 9:50 AM contact@olegkutkov.me <contact@olegkutkov.me>
wrote:
>
> No reaction from SpaceX or Elon
>
> On 23 Jun 2023, at 19:15, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>
> What was Elon Musk reaction to this research?
>
> Hesham
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023, 9:12 AM David Fernández via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> I think that paper has already been discussed in this list. It
>> appeared in the news a while ago:
>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/24/starlink_signal_decoded_for_use
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David
>>
>> > Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 06:17:08 -0700
>> > From: Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com>
>> > To: Hesham ElBakoury <helbakoury@gmail.com>
>> > Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band
>> > Downlink
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <CAO0-hXar-KaB=p=
>> HGeGe39vAKTeG5RHBxSgioccOj+R4Nt7yeA@mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > Most interesting:
>> >
>> > " VIII. CONCLUSIONS We have developed and applied a blind signal
>> > identification technique to uncover the frequency- and time-domain
>> > structure of the Starlink Ku-band downlink signal. We further identified
>> > four synchronization sequences that can be used to *passively exploit*
>> > Starlink signals for pseudorange-based positioning, navigation, and
>> timing
>> > (PNT), and explicitly evaluated two of these. The results in this paper
>> > illuminate the *path to use of Starlink signals as a backup to
>> traditional
>> > GNSS* for PNT."
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 6:09 AM Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
>> >>
>> >> Here's the PDF.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 2:55 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
>> >> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Has anyone looked at this paper (Signal Structure of the Starlink
>> >>> Ku-Band Downlink) by Todd E. Humphreys ? This paper will be published
>> in
>> >>> IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems. Are there other
>> >>> research efforts which try to do the same?
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>>
>> >>> Hesham
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Starlink mailing list
>> >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --
>> >> Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
2023-06-23 13:09 ` Joe Hamelin
@ 2023-06-23 13:17 ` Joe Hamelin
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Joe Hamelin @ 2023-06-23 13:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hesham ElBakoury; +Cc: starlink
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1456 bytes --]
Most interesting:
" VIII. CONCLUSIONS We have developed and applied a blind signal
identification technique to uncover the frequency- and time-domain
structure of the Starlink Ku-band downlink signal. We further identified
four synchronization sequences that can be used to *passively exploit*
Starlink signals for pseudorange-based positioning, navigation, and timing
(PNT), and explicitly evaluated two of these. The results in this paper
illuminate the *path to use of Starlink signals as a backup to traditional
GNSS* for PNT."
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 6:09 AM Joe Hamelin <nethead@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
>
> Here's the PDF.
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 2:55 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone looked at this paper (Signal Structure of the Starlink
>> Ku-Band Downlink) by Todd E. Humphreys ? This paper will be published in
>> IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems. Are there other
>> research efforts which try to do the same?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Hesham
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
>
--
--
Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
2023-06-23 9:55 ` [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink Hesham ElBakoury
@ 2023-06-23 13:09 ` Joe Hamelin
2023-06-23 13:17 ` Joe Hamelin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Joe Hamelin @ 2023-06-23 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Hesham ElBakoury; +Cc: starlink
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 736 bytes --]
https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf
Here's the PDF.
On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 2:55 AM Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> Has anyone looked at this paper (Signal Structure of the Starlink
> Ku-Band Downlink) by Todd E. Humphreys ? This paper will be published in
> IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems. Are there other
> research efforts which try to do the same?
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
--
--
Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink
2023-06-17 23:08 ` [Starlink] FCC Chair Rosenworcel Proposes to Investigate Impact of Data Caps Dave Taht
@ 2023-06-23 9:55 ` Hesham ElBakoury
2023-06-23 13:09 ` Joe Hamelin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Hesham ElBakoury @ 2023-06-23 9:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: starlink
Has anyone looked at this paper (Signal Structure of the Starlink
Ku-Band Downlink) by Todd E. Humphreys ? This paper will be published in
IEEE Transactions on Aerospace and Electronic Systems. Are there other
research efforts which try to do the same?
Thanks
Hesham
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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2023-06-23 16:12 [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink David Fernández
2023-06-23 16:14 ` Hesham ElBakoury
2023-06-23 16:50 ` contact
2023-06-23 16:56 ` David Fernández
2023-06-23 16:59 ` Hesham ElBakoury
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2023-06-17 23:08 ` [Starlink] FCC Chair Rosenworcel Proposes to Investigate Impact of Data Caps Dave Taht
2023-06-23 9:55 ` [Starlink] Signal Structure of the Starlink Ku-Band Downlink Hesham ElBakoury
2023-06-23 13:09 ` Joe Hamelin
2023-06-23 13:17 ` Joe Hamelin
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