From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x1135.google.com (mail-yw1-x1135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0188F3CB39 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2024 12:21:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yw1-x1135.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6eeb741c26eso49487347b3.0 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2024 09:21:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1732555269; x=1733160069; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=BCynh+FZHlb+sLhdbtYNoT9lpaXxa/uumZhGEozY+Cw=; b=aOf1Rvv0Bx412jfTdMgR2pjdQK0V51/2qEXjBdJnGeQOY+vQpg+QX7krlogMz8Asnt 8nzSIQEQ+zJCksgkbRAAvifHkcHZLutYzTCyT19FJxAl+Fsg1iVfM1u1tT1QdC/7H71a WD0d2Fhuqj1HWxYeCCtETVL0RD0N2e3MCRY11KbCa8UmDLm5emR8F4DmYPFM3CYxc9/Y PNW6+jNADc9N6VbZTpZuGgdfhQ5z5RlQlm3D1SIz3jr+NnxlvP9tDfV+Lx6++39k+2aq O8IzL4Un67CATjbVeRAMNfllOZySVMMfa06WDdgf5ZSyrGy+yOSAZZi75UdnVGkyMaDc U8tw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1732555269; x=1733160069; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=BCynh+FZHlb+sLhdbtYNoT9lpaXxa/uumZhGEozY+Cw=; b=fbEwO8oS3XcviQmoCOXQTTlyzxgJMfWDQOG2CIiWZ+ei0pzf8dbItnCkS1exWMZDXH wiT1yR9Rdf+gcAkc+Qg6+opz9p+q1TX0C4PK4vVtnIcue7uAiwxrkRqZLfNps62ayqqi rZY1cLnZLtUdPEwV2eJMUmwlTTFTRDGNuNr9SkothubE9Mc8mHbYC9ztd2ozDYUGP/zk MgQFzZBDYWHMj6XYadZ/ZBv216YbFaqQa3dGVBAdpnuXkQoernpAqmRobT060O+dqvPO ALHSEC5mRL1Euq2pgj/0V6xbnEWczm07+0/2X7KtXABZmQvZOF+uw6VRrRZ6t6gPmRgg z3Fg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUpBsnsoNZNa9SlY7nSG+UsZ8aZ8Uv+9MCtSs/mkeK5KjSCIc696jcpbk7/oCdOjy4mEoVaIMG/zg==@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz7MO7TCptFRYIe8vM/f4oRH1g6fDKsJs8hJHYZ595axQwcDe5I M0Q/YgzlHIeROipBSx6r8x2vQqq3BzqrXS0f8hp5jcsKAsUXf7CgmgDV4/+BJ5o0HA6yl9TiKCh 4nKKySGa6NE1MD8PUOa7zzZS0vVrXgw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsq7XLz8wjs4YDok9qZTwAdgT2Hz6EI2mvmy4ZKX6VOKmokFQ+bCu8QUU/sFvx ZCWk979j0ByV0u4dtpFgmZ5kv/SwVQrH3E2T0np3O3fo29MU8KQ79F17imXc0Rtjr X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFMkadIKT+/yCPM8rYrGX/0z2JGB+j3CmFUAJ3OUWZWRR8JZfo6ETutvYM0ZjFJdwHh23EGBK9mKkbx0YHHNi8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:63c7:b0:6ee:6c7d:4887 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6eee08bebb9mr127799067b3.21.1732555269372; Mon, 25 Nov 2024 09:21:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7032.1732386555@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <6f678b2a-4827-4334-a3c2-75d01bf0f06b@thexlab.org> <0n0ps9rq-730n-249n-1057-1o0707r405p3@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: <0n0ps9rq-730n-249n-1057-1o0707r405p3@ynat.uz> From: Steve Stroh Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 09:20:57 -0800 Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: sascha@thexlab.org, starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, Michael Richardson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006280030627bff514" Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Internet Speeds Could Skyrocket to 2 Gigabits Per Second, SpaceX President Says X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 17:21:10 -0000 --0000000000006280030627bff514 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Starshield isn=E2=80=99t just a version of Starlink for US military. The St= arshield sats have remote sensing capabilities too. That gives the US military greater ability to watch developments in realtime with all the Starshield sats in LEO than they could with their more capable, larger, but fewer observation sats. Not to mention higher bandwidth to downlink the observed data interleaved with the coms traffic. Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) Editor Zero Retries Newsletter - https://www.zeroretries.org Radios are Computers - With Antennas! On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 08:59 David Lang via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Sascha Meinrath via Starlink wrote: > > > For those who haven't been following the Starshield project (and its > > exponential > > ramp-up)... I fully expect that Musk will focus more on > military-industrial > > complex funding than in trying to repurpose FCC or NTIA support -- why > fight > > in > > the trenches for hundreds of millions when you can repurpose > > billions/tens-of-billions elsewhere: > > > > > https://spacenews.com/pentagons-commercial-satellite-internet-services-pr= ogram-soars-to-13-billion/ > > > > And yes, Starshield is just as scary and prone for abuse as Michael > alludes > > to. > > what's scary about it? it's just a smaller copy of Starlink, but run by > the > Military so that they don't have to worry about who may work in a > commercial > company that operates the system that may not have the countries best > interests > at heart. > > while it's expensive, the systems that it's going to replace are even mor= e > expensive, and are FAR slower. (and the fact that it's just normal TCP/IP > means > that all the branches and vendors that provide equipment will actually > standardize, they won't be able to push their own propriatary > systems/protocols) > > but 13B over several years for SpaceX to build and launch satellites for > them is > a small portion of SpaceX revenue. It's expected that the income from > Starlink > will be far more than that. So there is no reason to believe that they > will > abandon the commercial space and go all military. > > David Lang > > > > --Sascha > > > > On 11/23/24 13:29, Michael Richardson via Starlink wrote: > >> > >> Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrote: > >> > to launch at a faster rate or with fewer sats per launch. It's > also > > a bit > >> > more crowded in lower space, as this is where a lot of earth > > observation > >> > spacecraft sit (if you want to take detailed pics of the Earth'= s > > surface, you > >> > want it to be as close to your camera lens as you can have it), > and > > some of > >> > those aren't there for open source public good science. > >> > >> > >> 1. I'm sure that spaceX could just include cameras for earth > observation of > > dissidents. > >> 2. Earth observation will be obsolete according to Project 2025. > >> 3. Elon will own the FCC. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T > consulting ) > >> Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > >_______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --0000000000006280030627bff514 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Starshield isn=E2=80=99t just a version of Starlink for U= S military. The Starshield sats have remote sensing capabilities too. That = gives the US military greater ability to watch developments in realtime wit= h all the Starshield sats in LEO than they could with their more capable, l= arger, but fewer observation sats. Not to mention higher bandwidth to downl= ink the observed data interleaved with the coms traffic.




Steve Stroh N8G= NJ (he / him / his)
Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter - https://www.zeroretries.org=
Radios are Computers - With Antennas!


On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 08:59 David Lang via Starlin= k <starlink@lists.buff= erbloat.net> wrote:
Sascha Meinrath via St= arlink wrote:

> For those who haven't been following the Starshield project (and i= ts
> exponential
> ramp-up)... I fully expect that Musk will focus more on military-indus= trial
> complex funding than in trying to repurpose FCC or NTIA support -- why= fight
> in
> the trenches for hundreds of millions when you can repurpose
> billions/tens-of-billions elsewhere:
>
> https://spacenews.com/pentagons-commercial-satellite-internet-services-= program-soars-to-13-billion/
>
> And yes, Starshield is just as scary and prone for abuse as Michael al= ludes
> to.

what's scary about it? it's just a smaller copy of Starlink, but ru= n by the
Military so that they don't have to worry about who may work in a comme= rcial
company that operates the system that may not have the countries best inter= ests
at heart.

while it's expensive, the systems that it's going to replace are ev= en more
expensive, and are FAR slower. (and the fact that it's just normal TCP/= IP means
that all the branches and vendors that provide equipment will actually
standardize, they won't be able to push their own propriatary systems/p= rotocols)

but 13B over several years for SpaceX to build and launch satellites for th= em is
a small portion of SpaceX revenue. It's expected that the income from S= tarlink
will be far more than that. So there is no reason to believe that they will=
abandon the commercial space and go all military.

David Lang


> --Sascha
>
> On 11/23/24 13:29, Michael Richardson via Starlink wrote:
>>
>> Ulrich Speidel via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wr= ote:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > to launch at a faster rate or with fewer = sats per launch. It's also
> a bit
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > more crowded in lower space, as this is w= here a lot of earth
> observation
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > spacecraft sit (if you want to take detai= led pics of the Earth's
> surface, you
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > want it to be as close to your camera len= s as you can have it), and
> some of
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > those aren't there for open source pu= blic good science.
>>
>> <sincecism alert>
>> 1. I'm sure that spaceX could just include cameras for earth o= bservation of
> dissidents.
>> 2. Earth observation will be obsolete according to Project 2025. >> 3. Elon will own the FCC.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>=C2=A0 =C2=A0. o O ( IPv6 I= =C3=B8T consulting )
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sandelman Software = Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starl= ink
>
>_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
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