From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-vs1-xe30.google.com (mail-vs1-xe30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BE6A3B29E for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 14:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe30.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-45271a44cc4so22736137.2 for ; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:06:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1694973979; x=1695578779; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=w0tPb2hBPgfBGepCqNDBjd/h0jIdfJxS78Y89z4tUWY=; b=SblGZGCB9Cn5+CVrPD3PllF954/g8Ukr0mgC9mWa/3kyAVqU/b0Cnk4dH2h4TZq4Eq ZrUKquXwiGSaEnLBL+E4W90HSVdfXbGW4qXqO4+zxZIY9679Q7Q8eY1HhGG9bXbJMAKP BWrGGTj2IyDt4t8aS2JHvmXpQ+RGgUAdb4Ccv3HDkqMLWqOn4S1yfSEGo85uRRIcRTYi 106IYYLh1gsyHZ873lSfAAc5IZGfd8SJhfZa2xAKKhXXay2HuanT6uq5jN3fuuWAL/b4 gq00ZhD7FQPcZEaAB2LyG/i2Qe6u1jjdBfOVwmfUBRkKqtO6XWscTiytKNOEzqQuz2x0 InhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1694973979; x=1695578779; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=w0tPb2hBPgfBGepCqNDBjd/h0jIdfJxS78Y89z4tUWY=; b=uhVX6tr7h5LMKuFlHGNO+RdAu/dWbtaFZBNFDCO9PvffA7NjZLRGxusot7hXtYXWgh sf+KxYyBqoHHyDleXTZs1ysxZC7m/KtBfd+Ep0izsVfRt4uuldonVYZSq1BRJvoSJdKX XKUg3rTDc5CnB3mP3XotSJj0NzCjlL3y5kMwZSZPuVk6mVRdArytsWRByiMOLiom8MWx R9pjWo2FMHC90v71WUg2jwZXBKH6cI9LnJf+Ca3XUeQ6/d11JH8bmPwOlTpm1sEBHyel n6w4kHwdgmSENcBFSAkxCU9x8y7Jb5wj0Zi2L6TXEIsUCGSeJg13OfHZxPw41hKNvkqX 405g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz62odl0EuxpLjWxSVlyM4bMuSzhflYyWPCMJZM/CWcwhoDnUMU szqEwiEYnPJxRiEaPMr+vJOJCBgbuaqFFqvwDmR7lFdB X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEqV0vLVKrqChEsSynhLKMErE0phHNrIBwu+WYKXBxxsehW1fgip9B3+WE4kX/4+ACcc4HU9MyuyvdzNszkhQY= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:1272:b0:452:5798:64bc with SMTP id q18-20020a056102127200b00452579864bcmr1835448vsg.6.1694973979241; Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:06:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2d05e701-7556-8ae4-122c-e2f2d23feff2@gmail.com> <4o116qp9-6108-91r8-pn91-o37o6629npqo@ynat.uz> <2012b68c-2e15-4b5c-b36b-3b1d7eff12b4@gmail.com> <25dba59e-9661-419a-bc20-1ec3d3177c14@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <25dba59e-9661-419a-bc20-1ec3d3177c14@gmail.com> From: Steve Stroh Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 11:06:07 -0700 Message-ID: To: Starlink list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000efb5f6060591e124" Subject: Re: [Starlink] Main hurdles against the Integration of Satellites and Terrestial Networks X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 18:06:20 -0000 --000000000000efb5f6060591e124 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correction - Dishy has a motor AND a phased array antenna. Dishy figures out the best direction and azimuth to orient the antenna and uses the motor to do so. The phased array then tracks the orbital progression of each satellite it chooses to use for maximum SNR. I=E2=80=99ve read that the motor can also be used in creative ways like tip= ping itself to as close to vertical as possible to remove accumulated snow. You can choose to lock (disable) the motor - I=E2=80=99ve seen this done fo= r fixed installations like RVs and boats and if there are no obstacles such as trees and there=E2=80=99s a sufficient density of sats in your location, = =E2=80=9Cmotor off=E2=80=9D mode can work reasonably well. Steve Stroh On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 10:09 Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > Thanks for the description. It is an advanced and interesting antenna > behaviour for a consumer product. It is good the mechanical motor is > replaced with phasing. > > More advanced phasing is probably used in their antenna version for > automobiles, but might be the same principles. > > Then, for ships, where more 3D-imensional like movements exist, > replacing big motors with phasing can represent significant gains in > terms of space occupied. > > It is interesting it consumes more on receive than on transmit. Thanks. > > There was a pointer here pointing to an ETSI document about what might > be a sort of certification (access to medium to not disturb the > others). In it, it seems a different freq is used for transmit than for > receive. (12 vs 14GHz, or so, or vice-versa). The difference in frquency > might also be a factor (in addition to the dsp calculus you mention) in > differentiating the consumption up vs download. I'd expect working with > higher freuencies to require more energy. But I am not sure an ETSI > document can be for US starlink end user device. > > Alex > > > -- > > **************************************************************** > > Dr. Ulrich Speidel > > > > School of Computer Science > > > > Room 303S.594 (City Campus) > > > > The University of Auckland > > u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz > > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ > > **************************************************************** > > --000000000000efb5f6060591e124 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Correction - Dishy has a motor AND a phased array antenna= .=C2=A0

Dishy figures ou= t the best direction and azimuth to orient the antenna and uses the motor t= o do so. The phased array then tracks the orbital progression of each satel= lite it chooses to use for maximum SNR.

I=E2=80=99ve read that the motor can also be used in creati= ve ways like tipping itself to as close to vertical=C2=A0as possible to rem= ove accumulated snow.=C2=A0

You can choose to lock (disable) the motor - I=E2=80=99ve seen this don= e for fixed installations like RVs and boats and if there are no obstacles = such as trees and there=E2=80=99s a sufficient density of sats in your loca= tion, =E2=80=9Cmotor off=E2=80=9D mode can work reasonably well.

Steve Stroh

On Sun, Sep 17, 20= 23 at 10:09 Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

Thanks for the description.=C2=A0 It is an advanced and interesting antenna=
behaviour for a consumer product.=C2=A0 It is good the mechanical motor is =
replaced with phasing.

More advanced phasing is probably used in their antenna version for
automobiles, but might be the same principles.

Then, for ships, where more 3D-imensional like movements exist,
replacing big motors with phasing can represent significant gains in
terms of space occupied.

It is interesting it consumes more on receive than on transmit. Thanks.

There was a pointer here pointing to an ETSI document about what might
be a sort of certification (access to medium to not disturb the
others).=C2=A0 In it, it seems a different freq is used for transmit than f= or
receive. (12 vs 14GHz, or so, or vice-versa). The difference in frquency might also be a factor (in addition to the dsp calculus you mention) in differentiating the consumption up vs download.=C2=A0 I'd expect workin= g with
higher freuencies to require more energy.=C2=A0 But I am not sure an ETSI <= br> document can be for US starlink end user device.

Alex

> --
> ****************************************************************
> Dr. Ulrich Speidel
>
> School of Computer Science
>
> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
>
> The University of Auckland
> u.speide= l@auckland.ac.nz=C2=A0
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
> ****************************************************************
--000000000000efb5f6060591e124--