From: Steve Stroh <steve.stroh@gmail.com>
To: Mike Puchol <mike@starlink.sx>
Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army?
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 10:31:28 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAGh1Bg7jvjeQ=im68o0ueVEZ6=4ZtyF5L25AFc=bPzqFRmDJJw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3263acfd-aa5d-4404-805d-0ed966185d5a@Spark>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2989 bytes --]
On the battlefield, high power continuous jamming such as you describe
tends not to last very long. There are special missiles (HARM - High speed
AntiRadiation Missile) to remedy that situation. They home in on a jamming
transmitter like a beacon.
One of the stellar attributes about Starlink is that it’s using phased
array antennas on both user terminals and satellites, proving a “tight
beam”. I’m speculating, but my guess is that clever programming is
configuring the satellite beams to be contoured to ignore contested areas
where jamming is being attempted. An additional speculation is that
Starlink is programming both the satellites and user terminals to
continuously authenticate each other’s transmission, allowing them to
ignore spoofing attempts.
Not to mention that the directional nature of the beams allows for a
positional reality check. If a terminal is attempted to be used by the
enemy and the terminal’s internal GPS is spoofed to say it’s well within
Ukraine (good guy territory) rather than its real location outside Ukraine
(bad guy territory), the satellite can discern that a terminal really isn’t
where it’s reporting it is, and that terminal gets (permanently?)
deauthorized.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 13:45 Mike Puchol via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> Pumping out RF at fairly high power levels, and pointing an antenna at a
> satellite, are both things very easy to do for someone like Russia. To then
> jam 500 MHz of spectrum all at once is not that trivial, and one can get
> creative, eg by only attacking the reference subcarriers in OFDM, thus
> concentrating RF power on those, rather than the whole channel.
>
> There are some papers written around jamming LTE by attacking specific
> resources instead of the whole band, making the attack less conspicuous,
> something similar could be applied against Starlink. By not using brute
> force, you also make the attack harder to detect and counter.
>
> My view is that Russia is not worried about being noticed, and just
> applies brute force.
>
> Best,
>
> Mike
> On Oct 14, 2022 at 20:26 +0200, Juliusz Chroboczek <jch@irif.fr>, wrote:
>
> Juliusz, see the Twitter thread I linked to, it explains precisely the
> jamming scenarios they could be facing, and how they are possible.
>
>
> I saw it after I wrote my question, and it does explain a lot. Thanks.
>
> Do you have an idea how difficult it is to actually do in practice? Is it
> a simple matter of plugging a second-hand VSAT dish to an old amateur
> radio rig, or do you actually need to be a research lab of the Moscow
> Academy of Sciences to do it?
>
> -- Juliusz
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
--
Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his)
Editor
Zero Retries Newsletter - https://zeroretries.substack.com
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4134 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-10-16 17:31 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-10-14 12:06 Juliusz Chroboczek
2022-10-14 12:45 ` David Lang
2022-10-14 13:05 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2022-10-14 13:11 ` David Lang
2022-10-14 14:17 ` Mike Puchol
2022-10-14 18:26 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2022-10-14 20:44 ` Mike Puchol
2022-10-16 17:31 ` Steve Stroh [this message]
2022-10-16 17:56 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-16 18:28 ` Vint Cerf
2022-10-14 12:51 ` Mike Puchol
2022-10-14 13:13 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2022-10-14 14:15 ` Mike Puchol
2022-10-14 16:05 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2022-10-14 17:13 ` Kurtis Heimerl
2022-10-14 17:28 ` David Lang
2022-10-14 18:16 ` Juliusz Chroboczek
2022-10-14 18:32 ` Larry Press
2022-10-14 19:32 ` Benjamin Henrion
2022-10-14 19:35 ` David Lang
2022-10-14 20:07 ` David Lang
2022-10-14 22:29 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-15 16:51 ` Larry Press
2022-10-16 6:42 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-16 8:45 ` Bruce Perens
2022-10-16 16:31 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-16 17:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-16 19:55 ` Brandon Butterworth
2022-10-16 20:25 ` Bruce Perens
2022-11-02 3:50 ` [Starlink] 25 years of open source - where we went wrong, and how to fix it Dave Taht
2022-10-14 19:13 ` [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army? tom
2022-10-14 19:41 ` David Lang
2022-10-14 20:09 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-16 17:50 ` Steve Stroh
2022-10-16 17:57 ` Nathan Owens
2022-10-16 18:01 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-16 18:29 ` Vint Cerf
2022-10-16 18:33 ` David Lang
2022-10-16 18:44 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-16 19:03 ` Brandon Butterworth
2022-10-16 19:37 ` Ulrich Speidel
2022-10-16 19:51 ` David Lang
2022-10-16 20:37 ` Michael Richardson
2022-10-16 20:52 ` Bruce Perens
2022-10-16 22:17 ` Brandon Butterworth
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/postorius/lists/starlink.lists.bufferbloat.net/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='CAGh1Bg7jvjeQ=im68o0ueVEZ6=4ZtyF5L25AFc=bPzqFRmDJJw@mail.gmail.com' \
--to=steve.stroh@gmail.com \
--cc=mike@starlink.sx \
--cc=starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox