From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-f172.google.com (mail-yw1-f172.google.com [209.85.128.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90C193CB38 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-f172.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-632bcf111ffso57071937b3.3 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1719342478; x=1719947278; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Q/Kc7Mm60kuQ3FTUKxKagfJ1ue8ehWaRn0z3BkJbADQ=; b=Dr8Nud7EnpJ5aAsdLoSL3VSCFmg+CspNzGmf0Oby39aad3ypjNIeKbFgmdXZyYX3O+ oC+5flK3OB4+LkVCisE5pusHHdS+3GngvnjvTNTIo1yX11xCPj7I788SrOoJ8OrJptqp s9E04AJBXvCtKPgTGLt2SBaOt+eX59VOio4wded7QAj2j4I+pX46PvihwlnsREMakIca 9vUOY6CECgRb3GcuEqFGzdaoIkMGZZYuuOg8MuutySBimG+YzbPHEomEgQn1zsKrabZK fENay7Ykj8KVOIUMILrTXZItskq8xOtl6v3DffG6q5QSZ8dzpLSm37JAoAL8ZimmPLdH f2eA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxW3P9bRuIKUGsVHC2YLkx0BvQ8D3+w9POW1Jwzrb+3isIGxk51 Xylsp8Orf9nZ9LeIR2szFDeQefhIorEWiFXy97svhMwsmEWm0f5nbkoKtx6BrzOjFfm5DuMO84R KgNDY5tuI7nbpKr6eWnKoszb7MJ5//Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE1FPq7+0q1DyW6Tw0xIBTn/hjr1AkCG+1whBNK2HS07NKhfyflZSX8ZJ4odBRkXGIIcXJhBWLJcb5Qg+ms1BY= X-Received: by 2002:a81:91ce:0:b0:62f:ffc6:4cbf with SMTP id 00721157ae682-643a9813366mr83048437b3.7.1719342477962; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:07:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <29b64dbf-34c4-4616-9724-9c79bdcc1bb4@auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <29b64dbf-34c4-4616-9724-9c79bdcc1bb4@auckland.ac.nz> From: J Pan Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:07:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ulrich Speidel Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] Jamaican Starlink Outages and a hint of shared infrastructure X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 19:07:58 -0000 yes, internet nowadays in the hands of isp's does not (only) route packets but money ;-) -- J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pa= n On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 3:19=E2=80=AFPM Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrote: > > This is actually a wider problem and it's not just a Starlink one. In > grad school, we teach students what a wonderful thing this Internet is, > and how it abounds with algorithms that find the shortest path and make > life wonderful. In practice, most people who "buy Internet" don't look > much past where their immediate physical connection terminates and what > might be lurking upstream. I had dinner with the CEO of a REN a few > years ago who complained bitterly that some university managers didn't > understand that if they made them an offer to build a connection for > them, it meant that they could get a dedicated fibre pair all the way to > the other side of the world if they needed it. And of course their > offering was a bit dearer than that of the local retail ISP who was also > offering "X Gb/s" - but of course only going as far as their own > infrastructure. From where the university traffic would have been > travelling cattle class. > > This can also lead to weird effects globally. For example, much of the > traffic between Japan and New Zealand *could* in principle trundle down > to Guam and from there to Sydney and then to Auckland. Which would be > kind of shortest path. And occasionally it does. But just as often, you > see it crossing the Pacific to the US West Coast (or from Guam to > Hawaii) and from there back to New Zealand. Why? Good question. Was it > because US backhaul carriers were cheaper for a while with the US dollar > being soft and the Australian / NZ currencies surging in comparison? > Were there government incentives for carriers to let traffic run through > US territory for intelligence access (if so, the NSA would have to fear > a strong dollar I guess)? > > With Starlink, keeping traffic out of space might seem a bit weird given > their 100 Gb/s lasers, but yes it does mean downlinking to > infrastructure that may path-share with with the infrastructure you're > seeking to back up. But lasering your traffic around means adding > latency - the path may zig-zag badly or may even overshoot the target. > Plus the latency won't be stable. So keeping traffic out of space isn't > such a bad idea after all perhaps. Then again, Jamaica's fibre > connectivity is by and large not great circle path either... > > On 25/06/2024 2:42 am, J Pan via Starlink wrote: > > can you give the reference to the complaint so we can dive into it a > > bit? once the user packet reaches the satellite, it needs to get to > > the ground (sooner than later according to starlink's current > > practice), which may run into the same fiber to tunnel the packet from > > the landing ground station to the user's home pop. once at the pop, > > most starlink pop's now have at least two neighbor pop's, so > > theoretically, starlink has the capability to route packets to a > > different landing ground station through inter-sat links and another > > pop, if it can arrange so properly > > -- > > J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA= /~pan > > > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 3:40=E2=80=AFAM Inemesit Affia via Starlink > > wrote: > >> I don't live in Jamaica but I just saw a user complain his service goe= s out at the same time his local provider does. > >> > >> The provider is Flow Jamaica and they seem to get service via C&W Cari= bbean according to another poster. > >> > >> Service going out together likely means there's shared infrastructure.= And buying Starlink as backup and having it fail hard without rerouting se= veral times in a row is below expectations. > >> > >> There's another provider in Jamaica. Digicel that seems to have separa= te infrastructure but that might not be value for money to have alternative= connectivity. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > _______________________________________________ > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > -- > **************************************************************** > Dr. Ulrich Speidel > > School of Computer Science > > Room 303S.594 (City Campus) > > The University of Auckland > u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ > **************************************************************** > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink