From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=; dkim=fail; arc=none (Message is not ARC signed); dmarc=fail (Used From Domain Record) header.from=uvic.ca policy.dmarc=none Received: from mail-yx1-f45.google.com (mail-yx1-f45.google.com [74.125.224.45]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84C3492F2BA for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2025 18:52:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-yx1-f45.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-633c1b740c5so952736d50.3 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2025 09:52:38 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1762537957; x=1763142757; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=owmrg5onFoYoIY9FTiCp4HzRuGeEsgr6TOrm57tjRd4=; b=Rp8UAmy87UVUY3DqgHhdcu+ORdJPnWbGjYfhsOKHWyIwD9mqML7/fBLuthcT6oHQEY zcNbOoDsv9FtI9K7hd+myG4+6ljkxNgwDWLIy/mKZ8SAdAiA4FhO9TmFtQ/SX1pMqtJj qnjtz0SLsxDy3Xk+axoqliuwtUhfscstD0Z5ywA0kOzx3mMQD18NVjYxiQHp/WdQ1MRt voXFgxnkXwEcNA1Ym2Cml7L6Zl4McXAzsSLVJePBej/M7wERosrEpGMh1Nx5P7sULYG2 OsjeO+CxQ6hFuBRw/l66dSydK5RxBaMlBSXRqLdq3fduGjriCpzKOpuDIyfS7X6nyDlL bwMw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXvvdo5j0RUPgtU/A2ENlf6BkOuCkqywFp/zjUcpO6omE8IOg4XgGcoQu6lF/G1JYY9qQZTK6uVHw==@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxkK4abjloSWQG4PuLhR+LZCnLLfS1Pij5QWXVBS61bkxt5l5dW L/VNjeQ/VNXyTmnbANzlwINEf3QsGNVyrfYuD9CvwsDE3EYIdLIuYU0hCTR2KZG7hHVMGeu1+cp QYRQhyzHUqxdv3Ljmc94qS65QB1xqdXoPDg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu9+iiFP/4b54cd8Wzek5q19jrPOrBjEQgqjuy5cAgSOiD4tkXiW0sAzPxXJCb QsUS4EGNCH1oLExe03hEOTEQvfdyGKGForRvtDjzhNv/Q52EQ8oGfuJ84ZX+fbpF7sOroDdBPjI zc98U+7/AZXqYzimFYwg3r90ryX7DJVQpGkuc2y10qjZO8GTLM2DWLIynNvD7ut2V2/aGEn6H8f Zf12C3wSmkgThq1EPKoNMAh/46/N/5O+mcABNNkQhhE+RMy8aMd43AmmxlfXjK7fg7XFyg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE13Bjj6hrZeB/+eavzWtDUQhHXMXKOj7TQWhLb/VWVHu/i8OrfSkiXbePcTWcnc0d1RqM30uN3olSvIIf+dGA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:4346:b0:63f:c61a:5075 with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-640c43718f9mr2745845d50.52.1762537956719; Fri, 07 Nov 2025 09:52:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9390D9DA-3C77-429F-A41D-E0FECD52FF06@connectivitycap.com> <2036296F-1567-4B66-BD8C-3AB49EBD5AA3@connectivitycap.com> In-Reply-To: <2036296F-1567-4B66-BD8C-3AB49EBD5AA3@connectivitycap.com> From: J Pan Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2025 09:52:25 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AWmQ_blDI_oBV-Wlqvihh8Wq4w6NVeajpWPFjnjuJXwlGyHe5Q31VOY89eNNy6I Message-ID: To: Jim Forster Cc: Frantisek Borsik , Cake List , bloat , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, libreqos , l4s-discuss@ietf.org, starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: F7LZPRFP2ZQXFUZKSW6DWZGAYVQXWDBY X-Message-ID-Hash: F7LZPRFP2ZQXFUZKSW6DWZGAYVQXWDBY X-MailFrom: panatuvicdotca@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; loop; banned-address; emergency; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.10 Precedence: list Subject: [Starlink] Re: [LibreQoS] Re: Keynote: QoE/QoS - Bandwidth Is A Lie! at WISPAPALOOZA 2025 (October 16) List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: latency is based on round-trip time, and one-way delay includes transmission delay, propagation delay, queuing delay and processing delay. bandwidth does affect transmission delay (or serialization delay), propagation delay is determined by the link length and the "travel" speed of the signal, queuing delay is the hardest part and affected by the buffer bloat a lot, and processing delay is another variable. of course, transmission delay takes less and less portion of the end-to-end delay now due to higher and higher "speed" links consumers may mistaken the speed of the link (the "width" of their pipe) as how fast their internet is (the "length" of the pipe), due to the poor terminology we have been using ;-) -- J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pa= n On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 8:19=E2=80=AFAM Jim Forster via Starlink wrote: > > Frank =E2=80=94 I=E2=80=99m watching it now, Great job pulling this group= together, and nice, balanced opening statement. > > =E2=80=94 Jim > > > On Nov 7, 2025, at 5:53=E2=80=AFAM, Frantisek Borsik via Starlink wrote: > > > > > > Recording of our QoE/QoS panel discussion is out! It was really great a= nd > > believe you will like it: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DT1VET0VYQ6c > > > > We have touch bandwidth, L4S, Starlink and more. > > > > Here are the slides with additional reading: > > https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ML0I3Av3DCtQDiP8Djr_YGH2r4-UDZP= 25VEk-xyJcZE/edit?slide=3Did.p#slide=3Did.p > > > > We hope to continue this conversation into more practical, demo-like > > environment of sort, that we can see at IETF Hackathon and used to see = in > > the early WISPA event days, with Animal Farm. > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list -- starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > To unsubscribe send an email to starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net