The irtt run finished a few seconds before the flent run, but here are the results: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FKve13ssUMW1LLWOXLM2931Yx6uMHw8K/view?usp=share_link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXd64A0pfUedLr3FyhDNTHA7vxv8S2Gk/view?usp=share_link https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rx64UPQHHz3IMNiJtb1oFqtqw2DvhvEE/view?usp=share_link [image: image.png] [image: image.png] Jonathan Bennett Hackaday.com On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 3:30 PM Nathan Owens via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Here's Luis's run -- the top line below the edge of the graph is 200ms > [image: Screenshot 2023-01-13 at 1.30.03 PM.png] > > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 1:25 PM Luis A. Cornejo > wrote: > >> Dave, >> >> Here is a run the way I think you wanted it. >> >> irtt running for 5 min to your dallas server, followed by a waveform >> test, then a few seconds of inactivity, cloudflare test, a few more secs of >> nothing, flent test to dallas. Packet capture is currently uploading (will >> be done in 20 min or so), irtt JSON also in there (.zip file): >> >> >> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FLWqrzNcM8aK-ZXQywNkZGFR81Fnzn-F?usp=share_link >> >> -Luis >> >> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 2:50 PM Dave Taht via Starlink < >> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 12:30 PM Nathan Owens wrote: >>> >>>> Here's the data visualization for Johnathan's Data >>>> >>>> [image: Screenshot 2023-01-13 at 12.29.15 PM.png] >>>> >>>> You can see the path change at :12, :27, :42, :57 after the minute. >>>> Some paths are clearly busier than others with increased loss, latency, and >>>> jitter. >>>> >>> >>> I am so glad to see loss and bounded delay here. Also a bit of rigor >>> regarding what traffic was active locally vs on the path would be nice, >>> although it seems to line up with the known 15s starlink switchover thing >>> (need a name for this), in this case, doing a few speedtests >>> while that irtt is running would show the impact(s) of whatever else >>> they are up to. >>> >>> It would also be my hope that the loss distribution in the middle >>> portion of this data is good, not bursty, but we don't have a tool to take >>> apart that. (I am so hopeless at json) >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 10:09 AM Nathan Owens wrote: >>>> >>>>> I’ll run my visualization code on this result this afternoon and >>>>> report back! >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 9:41 AM Jonathan Bennett via Starlink < >>>>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The irtt command, run with normal, light usage: >>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SiVCiUYnx7nDTxIVOY5w-z20S2O059rA/view?usp=share_link >>>>>> >>>>>> Jonathan Bennett >>>>>> Hackaday.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM Dave Taht >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> packet caps would be nice... all this is very exciting news. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd so love for one or more of y'all reporting such great uplink >>>>>>> results nowadays to duplicate and re-plot the original irtt tests we >>>>>>> did: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> irtt client -i3ms -d300s myclosestservertoyou.starlink.taht.net -o >>>>>>> whatever.json >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They MUST have changed their scheduling to get such amazing uplink >>>>>>> results, in addition to better queue management. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (for the record, my servers are de, london, fremont, sydney, dallas, >>>>>>> newark, atlanta, singapore, mumbai) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's an R and gnuplot script for plotting that output around here >>>>>>> somewhere (I have largely personally put down the starlink project, >>>>>>> loaning out mine) - that went by on this list... I should have >>>>>>> written >>>>>>> a blog entry so I can find that stuff again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 9:02 AM Jonathan Bennett via Starlink >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 6:28 AM Ulrich Speidel via Starlink < >>>>>>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On 13/01/2023 6:13 pm, Ulrich Speidel wrote: >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > From Auckland, New Zealand, using a roaming subscription, it >>>>>>> puts me >>>>>>> >> > in touch with a server 2000 km away. OK then: >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > IP address: nix six. >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > My thoughts shall follow later. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> OK, so here we go. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I'm always a bit skeptical when it comes to speed tests - they're >>>>>>> really >>>>>>> >> laden with so many caveats that it's not funny. I took our new >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> >> Starlink kit home in December to give it a try and the other day >>>>>>> finally >>>>>>> >> got around to set it up. It's on a roaming subscription because >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> >> badly built-up campus really isn't ideal in terms of a clear view >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> >> sky. Oh - and did I mention that I used the Starlink Ethernet >>>>>>> adapter, >>>>>>> >> not the WiFi? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Caveat 1: Location, location. I live in a place where the best >>>>>>> Starlink >>>>>>> >> promises is about 1/3 in terms of data rate you can actually get >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> >> fibre to the home at under half of Starlink's price. Read: There >>>>>>> are few >>>>>>> >> Starlink users around. I might be the only one in my suburb. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Caveat 2: Auckland has three Starlink gateways close by: Clevedon >>>>>>> (which >>>>>>> >> is at a stretch daytrip cycling distance from here), Te Hana and >>>>>>> Puwera, >>>>>>> >> the most distant of the three and about 130 km away from me as >>>>>>> the crow >>>>>>> >> flies. Read: My dishy can use any satellite that any of these >>>>>>> three can >>>>>>> >> see, and then depending on where I put it and how much of the >>>>>>> southern >>>>>>> >> sky it can see, maybe also the one in Hinds, 840 km away, >>>>>>> although that >>>>>>> >> is obviously stretching it a bit. Either way, that's plenty of >>>>>>> options >>>>>>> >> for my bits to travel without needing a lot of handovers. Why? >>>>>>> Easy: If >>>>>>> >> your nearest teleport is close by, then the set of satellites >>>>>>> that the >>>>>>> >> teleport can see and the set that you can see is almost the same, >>>>>>> so you >>>>>>> >> can essentially stick with the same satellite while it's in view >>>>>>> for you >>>>>>> >> because it'll also be in view for the teleport. Pretty much any >>>>>>> bird >>>>>>> >> above you will do. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> And because I don't get a lot of competition from other users in >>>>>>> my area >>>>>>> >> vying for one of the few available satellites that can see both >>>>>>> us and >>>>>>> >> the teleport, this is about as good as it gets at 37S latitude. >>>>>>> If I'd >>>>>>> >> want it any better, I'd have to move a lot further south. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> It'd be interesting to hear from Jonathan what the availability >>>>>>> of home >>>>>>> >> broadband is like in the Dallas area. I note that it's at a lower >>>>>>> >> latitude (33N) than Auckland, but the difference isn't huge. I >>>>>>> notice >>>>>>> >> two teleports each about 160 km away, which is also not too bad. >>>>>>> I also >>>>>>> >> note Starlink availability in the area is restricted at the >>>>>>> moment - >>>>>>> >> oversubscribed? But if Jonathan gets good data rates, then that >>>>>>> means >>>>>>> >> that competition for bird capacity can't be too bad - for >>>>>>> whatever reason. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I'm in Southwest Oklahoma, but Dallas is the nearby Starlink >>>>>>> gateway. In cities, like Dallas, and Lawton where I live, there are good >>>>>>> broadband options. But there are also many people that live outside cities, >>>>>>> and the options are much worse. The low density userbase in rural Oklahoma >>>>>>> and Texas is probably ideal conditions for Starlink. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Caveat 3: Backhaul. There isn't just one queue between me and >>>>>>> whatever I >>>>>>> >> talk to in terms of my communications. Traceroute shows about 10 >>>>>>> hops >>>>>>> >> between me and the University of Auckland via Starlink. That's 10 >>>>>>> >> queues, not one. Many of them will have cross traffic. So it's a >>>>>>> bit >>>>>>> >> hard to tell where our packets really get to wait or where they >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> >> dropped. The insidious bit here is that a lot of them will be >>>>>>> between 1 >>>>>>> >> Gb/s and 10 Gb/s links, and with a bit of cross traffic, they can >>>>>>> all >>>>>>> >> turn into bottlenecks. This isn't like a narrowband GEO link of a >>>>>>> few >>>>>>> >> Mb/s where it's obvious where the dominant long latency >>>>>>> bottleneck in >>>>>>> >> your TCP connection's path is. Read: It's pretty hard to tell >>>>>>> whether a >>>>>>> >> drop in "speed" is due to a performance issue in the Starlink >>>>>>> system or >>>>>>> >> somewhere between Starlink's systems and the target system. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I see RTTs here between 20 ms and 250 ms, where the physical >>>>>>> latency >>>>>>> >> should be under 15 ms. So there's clearly a bit of buffer here >>>>>>> along the >>>>>>> >> chain that occasionally fills up. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Caveat 4: Handovers. Handover between birds and teleports is >>>>>>> inevitably >>>>>>> >> associated with a change in RTT and in most cases also available >>>>>>> >> bandwidth. Plus your packets now arrive at a new queue on a new >>>>>>> >> satellite while your TCP is still trying to respond to whatever it >>>>>>> >> thought the queue on the previous bird was doing. Read: Whatever >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> >> cwnd is immediately after a handover, it's probably not what it >>>>>>> should be. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I ran a somewhat hamstrung (sky view restricted) set of four Ookla >>>>>>> >> speedtest.net tests each to five local servers. Average upload >>>>>>> rate was >>>>>>> >> 13 Mb/s, average down 75.5 Mb/s. Upload to the server of the ISP >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >> Starlink seems to be buying its local connectivity from (Vocus >>>>>>> Group) >>>>>>> >> varied between 3.04 and 14.38 Mb/s, download between 23.33 and >>>>>>> 52.22 >>>>>>> >> Mb/s, with RTTs between 37 and 56 ms not correlating well to rates >>>>>>> >> observed. In fact, they were the ISP with consistently the worst >>>>>>> rates. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Another ISP (MyRepublic) scored between 11.81 and 21.81 Mb/s up >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >> between 106.5 and 183.8 Mb/s down, again with RTTs badly >>>>>>> correlating >>>>>>> >> with rates. Average RTT was the same as for Vocus. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Note the variation though: More or less a factor of two between >>>>>>> highest >>>>>>> >> and lowest rates for each ISP. Did MyRepublic just get lucky in my >>>>>>> >> tests? Or is there something systematic behind this? Way too few >>>>>>> tests >>>>>>> >> to tell. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> What these tests do is establish a ballpark. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> I'm currently repeating tests with dish placed on a trestle >>>>>>> closer to >>>>>>> >> the heavens. This seems to have translated into fewer outages / >>>>>>> ping >>>>>>> >> losses (around 1/4 of what I had yesterday with dishy on the >>>>>>> ground on >>>>>>> >> my deck). Still good enough for a lengthy video Skype call with >>>>>>> my folks >>>>>>> >> in Germany, although they did comment about reduced video >>>>>>> quality. But >>>>>>> >> maybe that was the lighting or the different background as I >>>>>>> wasn't in >>>>>>> >> my usual spot with my laptop when I called them. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Clear view of the sky is king for Starlink reliability. I've got >>>>>>> my dishy mounted on the back fence, looking up over an empty field, so it's >>>>>>> pretty much best-case scenario here. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -- >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> **************************************************************** >>>>>>> >> Dr. Ulrich Speidel >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> School of Computer Science >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Room 303S.594 (City Campus) >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> The University of Auckland >>>>>>> >> u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz >>>>>>> >> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ >>>>>>> >> **************************************************************** >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> Starlink mailing list >>>>>>> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Starlink mailing list >>>>>>> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz >>>>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Starlink mailing list >>>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz >>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >> _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >