From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pj1-x1034.google.com (mail-pj1-x1034.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 917C83B2A4 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2024 10:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pj1-x1034.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c21fbfb4a3so2046434a91.2 for ; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:57:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1717599466; x=1718204266; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DiAJQ9nP8PtMDAFgoP3C6LWTKzNged1mcnQ07extBoA=; b=BbAWOsccPqmVPMP9vi/rrw9TyUiyy8o5cpqonS/KT4HTOe8Jkaf+EJ4tlHFB5aw1P6 ntlwI9PJHVv+9G3iu7KKGZL+tpyyPxwwvw0ZWo14J5bHyVfSgVFutPmdSQGdAo/OzKnP e2xCCjHdEZcEX+YHkVzCoYYPJRT/BF4lQd63b+kiZaHXl5FPjT+tsgz5kHjye+2MkDTl jf2LLDySVVMViJovh7cXQKWwSTuaAQErS1v9yzNnWhD5NdHDw9s1GPFKHMgrVbbi9bNi uRS7R8GEpx1ha+t1f2AehI1Q/SCUo+8XdZjD/t18jrP6p47MwazQ+yoqHrAhZ+WmVsMb OGxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1717599466; x=1718204266; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=DiAJQ9nP8PtMDAFgoP3C6LWTKzNged1mcnQ07extBoA=; b=hPXLTTxbMH9uVxtU2Rqk3NsBtBD5OSJRxr/8hhdBdcDyx81wmgIDVXVjGrXDASbnYf rSV8gTmj+gojrsyM4bMZJibpFNpxcdCE7LJtEdge56tVL76ZpOWKrU7HR536/dPnyIaR MKyfmSYEecmxAZYhLs+yR+Ugaep7cobXwYPaLGK1RoosEF2i/Qgh367XWQttWzB1YJF/ jOtiHeHmp0ATdL233pkwwkhKgUMFwPtqKERbizqmcPPhQEwvHhUtPKtlHBuzfAd40hZA SqgeVTfOgsi7YN5SnK/87f+MYcPenLiDxv8sGjDR0fOW+eHQ84IHLvUO2HOgrpDpr7n1 aTeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyhxB9P1CQG8lBInF7wPU2pIkoR+BmnSJn7bK0BdgQvHLUs68pL 9rtwqOHtM5qoDqMjGluJbtZvmpmigRoqrordZzCcB7FxmUGA6WonncfINAYWlutVzznHg4AihC0 mPjIKJIg3FhxeJqIeF8D0OiZI++A/SBOVt6KiLcxbIUnpMmBXwg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFOP01nJUyc2toK6z+tc5GZPjPekXtWAKFyA0dGkRTxjFG0o0qsESY6rdElzJjxGeK2hXKFZyPdvk0Cc+s6pB4= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ac05:b0:2b3:28df:96b1 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c27dafea7bmr2716777a91.7.1717599465849; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:57:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Vint Cerf Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 10:57:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= Cc: starlink Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="000000000000173293061a25ca3f" Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't a problem X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2024 14:57:47 -0000 --000000000000173293061a25ca3f Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000007b3b2061a25ca64" --00000000000007b3b2061a25ca64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope you all realize that quantum entanglement does NOT facilitate FTL communication. v On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM David Fern=C3=A1ndez via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > "quantum entanglement may be a path to beat the speed of light" > > It seems that is not going anywhere. Maybe better warp drives. > > Faster than light comms as a target for 7G mentioned here: > > https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/653fee7b042dc92df09= 19930/MnM-Trends-Wheel/960x0.jpg?format=3Djpg&width=3D1440 > > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarwantsingh/2023/10/30/the-mega-trends-that= -will-shape-our-future-world > > So, maybe that means that 6G will be the last G, after all, as faster tha= n > light comms seem to be impossible, because paradoxes could be created. > > The end of comms engineering could be in the horizon of our lifetime. > > > Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 07:16:16 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Lang > To: Alexandre Petrescu > Cc: Gert Doering , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't a problem > Message-ID: <1r928s39-s5o3-q44n-804n-11ro432210s8@ynat.uz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed" > > Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > > > Le 05/06/2024 =C3=A0 15:40, Gert Doering a =C3=A9crit : > >> Hi, > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 05, 2024 at 03:28:45PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu via > Starlink > > wrote: > >>> well, ok. One day the satcom latency will be so low that we will not > have > >>> enough requirements for its use :-) > >> Your disbelief in physics keeps amazing me :-) > > > > sorry :-) Rather than simply 'satcom' I should have said > > satcom-haps-planes-drones. I dont have a name for that. > > you would be better off with plans that don't require beating the speed o= f > light. Yes, quantum entanglement may be a path to beat the speed of light= , > but > you still need the electronics to handle it, and have the speed of sound > at > temperatures and pressures that humans can live at as a restriction. > > by comparison to your 1ms latency goals, extensive AT&T phone testing > decades > ago showed that 100ms was the threshold where people could start to detec= t > a > delay. > > David Lang > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --=20 Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: Vint Cerf Google, LLC 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor Reston, VA 20190 +1 (571) 213 1346 until further notice --00000000000007b3b2061a25ca64 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I hope you all realize that quantum entanglement does NOT = facilitate=C2=A0 FTL communication.

v


On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:46=E2=80=AFAM David Fern=C3=A1ndez via Starlink= <starlink@lists.buffe= rbloat.net> wrote:
"quantum entanglement may be a path t= o beat the speed of light"

It seems that= is not going anywhere. Maybe better warp drives.

= Faster than light comms as a target for 7G mentioned here:


So, maybe = that means that 6G will be the last G, after all, as faster than light comm= s seem to be impossible, because paradoxes could be created.=C2=A0

The end of comms engineering could be in the horizon of ou= r lifetime.


Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 07:16:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Lang <dav= id@lang.hm>
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Cc: Gert Doering <ge= rt@space.net>, starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't = a problem
Message-ID: <1r928s39-s5o3-q44n-804n-11ro432210s8@ynat.uz>=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowe= d"

Alexandre Petrescu wrote:

> Le 05/06/2024 =C3=A0 15:40, Gert Doering a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 05, 2024 at 03:28:45PM +0200, Alexandre Petrescu via S= tarlink
> wrote:
>>> well, ok.=C2=A0 One day the satcom latency will be so low that= we will not have
>>> enough requirements for its use :-)
>> Your disbelief in physics keeps amazing me :-)
>
> sorry :-)=C2=A0 Rather than simply 'satcom' I should have said=
> satcom-haps-planes-drones.=C2=A0 I dont have a name for that.

you would be better off with plans that don't require beating the speed= of
light. Yes, quantum entanglement may be a path to beat the speed of light, = but
you still need the electronics to handle it, and have the speed of sound at=
temperatures and pressures that humans can live at as a restriction.

by comparison to your 1ms latency goals, extensive AT&T phone testing d= ecades
ago showed that 100ms was the threshold where people could start to detect = a
delay.

David Lang
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


--
Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to:
Vint Cerf
Google, LLC
1900 Reston Metro Plaza, = 16th Floor
Reston, VA 20190
+1 (571) 213 1346
=


unti= l further notice



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