From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 637143CB35 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 22:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id w29so34871880wra.8 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 19:40:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1oIerjvhTpV1iiiIk+6Ft9cMiiCc6cnQlWO5xYPq+jY=; b=Ja3WHSbv8jKA3AKHIq/YgRALS2UIXEtBdCo6w4QI9ePTEgXPlDFLQIxx6e6C9qXVls iVaPZNcNQjaZST9y8GXRdALzAkEwEYT4+UA6f9NX2KGpkY3WBJLLDyNW0IRNMoPPF3vJ LSBRebRCl3yGyhQl6HNdjoWsB5wwfGolzsng34cXz2DPlrFRyk5ALg2rLE5rg2SZVTkw ntLPRhJEMIPpMH1aI1H2TIR+zopf3h6K64Tr8VIpmHdOKk88fuaMGgcD2kkIbfFT94Xy ThfGOz1Uo0Zd88luan9dkfCjFdVBDl34nOUaY0JqT+/9n9etrtF7F7BK+WyIOkzHPvyL n0aQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1oIerjvhTpV1iiiIk+6Ft9cMiiCc6cnQlWO5xYPq+jY=; b=YLmbphZ9o4n83j6iH4xZZm//vaOcwXqqvqWaX5UEt9rY+TsyXEwBsdW2yb0d5sv0ZF brdsIOlBFLZrLANYrhiXX1g60s9oYZz0PILFVPkdsJMJLv5WGR0Nf2g6qPCtUSf+YTm5 dxO+OAs5DPg9HYi4encADv5iDBPKxEO2pkE86sotrm7ZI6JxPCiKxKaoxL9uE65PHGnu 2mEwAfX1NwactJBBLsv8E5q3dVv5UEmugsz+nhT5v4VOaLLTAsmp7Qfa0ms+K/vdhTG3 Ty2i0pSNU7noOQAVZEi1jZojNc7KQSnpooXXzxU61G3VMFdpwhdgkgjdUWEAS+XXcoh0 Fveg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532jkiJU/rkHK7HnkS+jyhn599/UjY7ZgGFzwoZe2xtaG0g+rJ0x KAq5CvhtSh0jnnpzGFGGTJf2tog8h3s1XvceyO7WhQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwdKyEjiJ/Qmv+/CvUc0yTKhtfZt1lrBYtfg3eYpbYkMY++gnUYLHyAxi7NTFzSm1IVi82vgpiw1JX2hPn/Qy0= X-Received: by 2002:adf:f890:: with SMTP id u16mr31052376wrp.388.1632192016174; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 19:40:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com> <989de0c1-e06c-cda9-ebe6-1f33df8a4c24@candelatech.com> <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com> <1625859083.09751240@apps.rackspace.com> <257851.1632110422@turing-police> In-Reply-To: From: Vint Cerf Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 22:40:04 -0400 Message-ID: To: Steve Crocker Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Valdis_Kl=C4=93tnieks?= , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, Make-Wifi-fast , Bob McMahon , "David P. Reed" , Cake List , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000054a53c05cc785120" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:50:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 02:40:17 -0000 --00000000000054a53c05cc785120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable see https://mediatrust.com/ v On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:28 AM Steve Crocker wrote: > Related but slightly different: Attached is a slide some of my colleagues > put together a decade ago showing the number of DNS lookups involved in > displaying CNN's front page. > > Steve > > > On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:18 AM Valdis Kl=C4=93tnieks > wrote: > >> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:21:56 -0700, Dave Taht said: >> > what actually happens during a web page load, >> >> I'm pretty sure that nobody actually understands that anymore, in any >> more than handwaving levels. >> >> I have a nice Chrome extension called IPvFoo that actually tracks the IP >> addresses contacted during the load of the displayed page. I'll let you >> make >> a guess as to how many unique IP addresses were contacted during a load >> of https://www.cnn.com >> >> ... >> >> >> ... >> >> >> ... >> >> >> 145, at least half of which appeared to be analytics. And that's only t= he >> hosts that were contacted by my laptop for HTTP, and doesn't count DNS, = or >> load-balancing front ends, or all the back-end boxes. As I commented >> over on >> NANOG, we've gotten to a point similar to that of AT&T long distance, >> where 60% >> of the effort of connecting a long distance phone call was the cost of >> accounting and billing for the call. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --=20 Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: Vint Cerf 1435 Woodhurst Blvd McLean, VA 22102 703-448-0965 until further notice --00000000000054a53c05cc785120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 10:28 AM Steve = Crocker <steve@shinkuro.com>= ; wrote:
Related but slightly different: Attache= d is a slide some of my colleagues put together a decade ago showing the nu= mber of DNS lookups involved in displaying CNN's front page.

Steve


On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:18 AM Valdis Kl=C4= =93tnieks <= valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:21:56 -0700, Dave Taht said:<= br> > what actually happens during a web page load,

I'm pretty sure that nobody actually understands that anymore, in any more than handwaving levels.

I have a nice Chrome extension called IPvFoo that actually tracks the IP addresses contacted during the load of the displayed page. I'll let you= make
a guess as to how many unique IP addresses were contacted during a load
of htt= ps://www.cnn.com

...


...


...


145, at least half of which appeared to be analytics.=C2=A0 And that's = only the
hosts that were contacted by my laptop for HTTP, and doesn't count DNS,= or
load-balancing front ends, or all the back-end boxes.=C2=A0 As I commented = over on
NANOG, we've gotten to a point similar to that of AT&T long distanc= e, where 60%
of the effort of connecting a long distance phone call was the cost of
accounting and billing for the call.








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--
Please send any postal/ove= rnight deliveries to:
Vint Cerf
1435 Woodhurst Blvd=C2= =A0
McLean, VA 22102
703-448-0965

<= div>until further notice



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