if you need real-time for video and control, that can add up ... v On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 2:01 PM Dave Taht via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 10:57 AM Nathan Owens via Starlink > wrote: > > > > Elon posted a graph, it showed a peak of 7000GB per unit time, the only > one that makes sense to me is per hour, which is 15Gbps peak -- not a huge > amount. > > You really don't need much data for C&C traffic. You do need a fairly > reliable uplink, but the observed jitter on an otherwise idle link was > in the few ms range. > > GPSD has a udp output mode, too. > > (btw, to my knowledge, starlink has not enabled any network interfaces > to the outside to their internal on-dish gps chip, which > when I was whinging about it, would provide perfect time to > downstream clients, either natively or via ntp) > > It's one very short message, per second. > > > > > On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 10:50 AM Steve Stroh via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> I’m speculating, but given that Starlink is THE communications > infrastructure for much of Ukraine, then the scaling of the ground stations > to provide that level of service must be a significant expense. To provide > that much bandwidth would require deploying a lot of ground stations, each > with expensive hardware, power infrastructure (including backup), fiber > backhaul, skilled labor, and no small amount of fiber bandwidth that SpaceX > has to pay SOMEONE to provide. > >> > >> Not to mention that anything SpaceX deploys to support Ukraine is a > resource that it could have used for speeding up revenue generation in > lucrative markets like the US. > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 12:41 David Lang via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> If spacex is providing the high-end/business grade service to all > terminals > >>> that they normally charge $4500/month for, reimbursement should be > based on > >>> that. > >>> > >>> Base it on the normal service pricing, not on cost-plus (if it were > based on > >>> cost-plus it would be an utter windfall for SpaceX as they are still > in the > >>> stage of building the service, and so there is a much higher spend > rate to > >>> expand the service at this point than the ongoing maintinance of it) > >>> > >>> while the satellites do support that area, they also support the rest > of the > >>> service, and if they weren't supporting Ukraine, there wouldn't be any > fewer > >>> satellites launched. > >>> > >>> I've seen too many games played with 'fully loaded costs' (sometimes > backfiring > >>> on the people tinkering with the numbers), and so it's something I > watch out > >>> for. > >>> > >>> lies, damn lies, and statistics, 'fully loaded costs' tend to be heavy > on > >>> statistics ;-) > >>> > >>> David Lang > >>> > >>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, tom@evslin.com wrote: > >>> > >>> > Putting aside the timing of Elon's complaint about cost right after > the spat over his Ukrainian "peace plan", It is certainly reasonable for > Starlink to get paid like other weapon suppliers who didn't give out free > samples to prove their usefulness, Given that they should be reimbursed > based on loaded cost plus profit like anyone else. I'm sure the other > suppliers allocate their overhead costs when pricing weapon systems. They'd > be out of business otherwise. The satellites are part of Starlink's fixed > overhead so a portion of their costs should be allocated to service > provided in Ukraine. > >>> > > >>> > All that being said, it would be terrible if Ukraine got less than > the best support that can be provided. > >>> > > >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> > From: Starlink On Behalf > Of David Lang via Starlink > >>> > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 1:28 PM > >>> > To: Kurtis Heimerl > >>> > Cc: Starlink list > >>> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the > Ukrainian army? > >>> > > >>> > Having now read more info on this, less significant than the $80m > total figure is the $20m/month figure he quoted. With 15k dishes as the > figure that they sent (separate from whatever has been purchased on the > commercial side), that works out to 1.3k/dish/month, which is very high. > >>> > > >>> > now, not being able to deploy reliable ground stations inside > Ukraine could be driving up costs, plus the ongoing battle against jamming. > But in his tweet he also cites satellite costs, which should not be > allocated as "Ukraine related" > >>> > costs (and I don't think the cyberdefense and jamming defense work > should be > >>> > either) > >>> > > >>> > David Lang > >>> > > >>> > On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, Kurtis Heimerl via Starlink wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> This thread (https://twitter.com/dim0kq/status/1580827171903635456) > >>> >> strongly argues that Starlink is largely paid for their service, at > >>> >> least on the consumer side. I imagine there are significant > >>> >> operational expenses in dealing with the various actors involved but > >>> >> not on the basic model. > >>> >> > >>> >> On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 9:06 AM Juliusz Chroboczek via Starlink > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>>> In essence, once you give something away for free, not even > setting > >>> >>>> the expectation that it’s a “freemium” model, it’s very hard to > get > >>> >>>> out of it. If you then claim your costs are way higher than what > >>> >>>> analysis work out, eyebrows raise way above the hairline. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Uh. Hmm. > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> Starlink mailing list > >>> >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> Starlink mailing list > >>> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >>> > > >>> >_______________________________________________ > >>> Starlink mailing list > >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > >> -- > >> Steve Stroh N8GNJ (he / him / his) > >> Editor > >> Zero Retries Newsletter - https://zeroretries.substack.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > -- > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > -- Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: Vint Cerf Google, LLC 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor Reston, VA 20190 +1 (571) 213 1346 until further notice