From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x22f.google.com (mail-oi1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A2123B2A4 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 15:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3ab2436b57dso3410834b6e.0 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:34:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1695065650; x=1695670450; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fcJeEW8fGn2sFlbQ6cf9EXoJsqL/W0bapGn9/o7EiW8=; b=OuOn2O8EjBnGJZmpcmuEG6Oopiyy/LJ+GE7c0lEbAG+khopYfdKEI1XlAhAeqPsTbk ejqh5JOlxa6TsXpBbmDIsfQ2MXxXyBTsnhlDly8K3/KKjR59OhFpdJfQHYtJw99pv61+ G3zkGrpIV7YYVbJzHPiBejrg9OlBvmFCPfwJ3juYHoh9G+RYr4aFesIoG7tuUn6bBTQx sozLYwggBRNxgkhkapbqPAX9rzz5HB7Lh7MTKtJMHo/M5v8LYqsYnTnPEpfQNN7LJsIh N+fc/IkvTZWRR0nVn2IIz1KS+VpBLFCZdoMMJ8k9dyrMhME6qiCtAxl0DjvL0RZlVG78 7xCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695065650; x=1695670450; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=fcJeEW8fGn2sFlbQ6cf9EXoJsqL/W0bapGn9/o7EiW8=; b=IAnBw+Hetk8KKmoEJPzHt9YfwV2foocghSoIMWIzG0ppYz1fMQIcuAS5GmSfvgko+6 fvhnW35b9Hl6+eop2lih3eNZlAv38/Hc+6fD8mAauwo0DwlzxJjFuJ4B090g3SSA2RHc urnaRC3yU+ioG2AB1bFEDouji48jV27EDT1EtKGd/mnuaLqyxt0m53bnoiC16gewHUwW yOFqUxuzy9kLlz1lfI6aV3Dwb476+k2dC04JiqcQvdT+7Xow5Zb/Bn9g1EZd3zaj8NVQ 0tWudJjMDEadszPUlO+Qz9djbJbhrJzfw8dYL0+OSkwSxwu41xaQM6vR6FibCNRhWW2d /b5A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzqUaehfB9M7QfW9iECzhOpddYT7tS2U/1WgRz6Yp4ePVTvPI4R srycgUHXYznIVMdkReZ9l9DtIRGxcvA/Z7ndvWCrATytYNE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFvJIfVCwFxd0TeHzU3HfBS20l7NAZ2wll2JahsK/CucRauqHT3JLROCxCn99+0vu28W0u8JMJIRrQk5e2Gi+Y= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:9b0:b0:3a7:2efb:cb71 with SMTP id e16-20020a05680809b000b003a72efbcb71mr11106465oig.25.1695065650401; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:34:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87msxjqwhj.wl-jch@irif.fr> <8658.1695062436@localhost> In-Reply-To: <8658.1695062436@localhost> From: Frantisek Borsik Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 21:44:40 +0200 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f697b50605a739dc" Subject: Re: [Starlink] impressed with my starlink today X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 19:34:11 -0000 --000000000000f697b50605a739dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem with Galene and in general, with almost everything open-source based per se, is its ANTI user GUI, setup process, documentation=E2=80=A6 Unnecessary barriers to entry for regular people we want to help, right? But instead of doing everything in our powers to tear these barriers down, most of the open source projects IMHO is even taking a big pride in this clunkiness, terrible geeky way of doing stuff, feeling like an =E2=80=9Cinn= er circle=E2=80=9D of those that are =E2=80=9Cin the know.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9COnly 10 minutes to setup=E2=80=9D - means no general public will e= ver use it en masses! It=E2=80=99s shooting our own foot. If we really want to actually help the people, we should do anything possible in order to improve UX/UI, to give the world (general public) know what we (insert anything open source, like Galene as an alternative to Zoom and the like) actually do and why it=E2=80=99s not only an alternative but = why it=E2=80=99s actually better. It means (in no particular order) better UX/UI, sharing information on social media, easy setup and onboarding, better and more accessible (almost to my grandmother) documentation - going above and beyond. Galene should be great - I=E2=80=99m willing to help to make it usable as e= asily as fucking Zoom. But are Galene guys really willing to make that leap? All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.borsik@gmail.com On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 at 8:40 PM, Michael Richardson via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > Juliusz Chroboczek via Starlink wrote: > > We're currently using receiver-driven congestion control, which is > > deprecated in WebRTC. The plan is to switch to sender-driven > congestion > > control at some point (I'm no big fan, but that's what everyone is > > implementing, and we better be compatible with the rest of the > universe). > > ... > > > (I could in principle use receiver-driven for the downstream and > > sender-driven for the upstream, thus using libwebrtc's excellent > > controllers in both directions, but it really feels like a hack. I= 'd > > much rather not negociate receiver-driven at all.) > > If I understand correctly, galene would support p2p media streams? > The web page seems to focus on lecture style. > > It seems to me that if you have multiple outgoing streams, that if there > are > problems with any of them, a sender-driven system allows for better use o= f > what is typically a smaller uplink. > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT > architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on > rails [ > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --000000000000f697b50605a739dc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The problem with Galene and in general, with almost every= thing open-source based per se, is its ANTI user GUI, setup process, docume= ntation=E2=80=A6

Unneces= sary barriers to entry for regular people we want to help, right? But inste= ad of doing everything in our powers to tear these barriers down, most of t= he open source projects IMHO is even taking a big pride in this clunkiness,= terrible geeky way of doing stuff, feeling like an =E2=80=9Cinner circle= =E2=80=9D of those that are =E2=80=9Cin the know.=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9COnly 10 minutes to setup=E2=80= =9D - means no general public will ever use it en masses!=C2=A0

It=E2=80=99s shooting our own foot.=

If we really want to ac= tually help the people, we should do anything possible in order to improve = UX/UI, to give the world (general public) know what we (insert anything ope= n source, like Galene as an alternative to Zoom and the like) actually do a= nd why it=E2=80=99s not only an alternative but why it=E2=80=99s actually b= etter.

It means (in no p= articular order) better UX/UI, sharing information on social media, easy se= tup and onboarding, better and more accessible (almost to my grandmother) d= ocumentation - =C2=A0
going above and beyond.=C2=A0<= /div>

Galene should be great -= I=E2=80=99m willing to help to make it usable as easily as fucking Zoom. B= ut are Galene guys really willing to make that leap?=C2=A0


A= ll the best,

Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frant= isekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp:=C2=A0+421919416714=C2=A0
i= Message, mobile:=C2=A0+420775230885
Skype: casioa5302ca
frantisek.borsik@gmail.com


On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 at 8:40 PM, Michael Richardson = via Starlink <starlink= @lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

Juliusz Chroboczek via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 > We're currently using receiver-driven congestion con= trol, which is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > deprecated in WebRTC.=C2=A0 The plan is to switch to sen= der-driven congestion
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > control at some point (I'm no big fan, but that'= s what everyone is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > implementing, and we better be compatible with the rest = of the universe).

...

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > (I could in principle use receiver-driven for the downst= ream and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > sender-driven for the upstream, thus using libwebrtc'= ;s excellent
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > controllers in both directions, but it really feels like= a hack.=C2=A0 I'd
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > much rather not negociate receiver-driven at all.)

If I understand correctly, galene would support p2p media streams?
The web page seems to focus on lecture style.

It seems to me that if you have multiple outgoing streams, that if there ar= e
problems with any of them, a sender-driven system allows for better use of<= br> what is typically a smaller uplink.

--
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Never tell me the o= dds!=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| ipv6 me= sh networks [
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IoT architect=C2=A0 =C2=A0[
]=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= mcr@sandelman.ca=C2=A0 http://www.sandelman.ca/=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0ruby on rails=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [

_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
--000000000000f697b50605a739dc--