From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x736.google.com (mail-qk1-x736.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::736]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9B853B29E for ; Sat, 13 May 2023 01:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x736.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-74e4f839ae4so544262585a.0 for ; Fri, 12 May 2023 22:13:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1683954794; x=1686546794; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=wDFTa9EX6XwKMHnF03XmazRalaN5adJRoriBRlsiriU=; b=YHasXNdEV5fUAmdxZWPgPl0Ss6bK1SxrX2RVJQ9pl/C2mM++ld0sK4j+JymoAh8zp8 F6kmygSkGX6Dk03MvHOncUqrxJR0ue+9OdG2ycwO9DM6i+oNg1Wo45xodTplu/EHA2aF U2QRZfkzMX5x8hm193oWB032rDCHZIC0kqtL5Rnh2tYIa83y1E9a/rwn1fbaywOtrc4L 7RHaulX1H9I5HzaBY3i7Tz3lVHXiTDryd2em+TKGoieINVIPfmduMHuNs+toDE3JwPsf NnZ1ig3bhuEW+mFFVi9HL9rnrJouB4+1YBbPUeU9u9XEaD4SMqnc73QI6Gie09jug6aS vV4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683954794; x=1686546794; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=wDFTa9EX6XwKMHnF03XmazRalaN5adJRoriBRlsiriU=; b=CJ7D7pLberEadQPrPLYCKOR1WkndE/ajt7+6Pyr6IH6Sc3Sss6l9NuJzR/A4lUkX7h vdfh1pVJw9FCMXu13KadB5tRfIgKwU2Q+455ryGzHQxrZs1OujHI7iM3np22uFf7URg0 p2sMMcaN/APXfsXX46iPd9CTFxPGnAcNQ1g2xj01NVyNmal9FhM64cxertLJqqYVBgkE la9Eef1GVRhRCnTWbXuTQr80V1UwcfVdQNAC6YD8nO/nYVjaFxOaluK/FTkBkxfkwxN/ oWgHAOXsCadH2mOA1ew81ZJsV1Pog5OiSl/ENStpzMLrhQw0TNH+2Xj6N/t93aKEKIBh 786A== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxxUeYNhYw4w/uItO9H6m/aPAM2XjCUzrmpQ0axh7E8xmG64jJX aNIl9J4HyqYomL6uqq2eHANydG2dCRDUL0ia3rw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6BLEpNpRnxwvdaeoTBatvBI8Ioi26MCLLZQjve2++ARVLKYb4WTsU2qioFeLWmUH7x43Mm1JKcoY/x5uehFQI= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5dca:0:b0:3f3:8dff:68fc with SMTP id e10-20020ac85dca000000b003f38dff68fcmr33104029qtx.22.1683954794173; Fri, 12 May 2023 22:13:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <18126136-62E3-4C6D-88D2-72124B73BFDF@onholyground.com> <29410BC8-B70B-40FC-9885-513AC26F2147@onholyground.com> In-Reply-To: From: Frantisek Borsik Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 07:22:22 +0200 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Darrell Budic , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000531a1f05fb8c470f" Subject: Re: [Starlink] Planetary Society podcast on SpaceX & EPA issues X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 05:13:15 -0000 --000000000000531a1f05fb8c470f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *THIS <3 =E2=80=A6I continue down below.* =E2=80=9CIn the bars I visited, and the hotel I stayed at, approval of spac= ex was roughly 100%, with a sense of pride and accomplishment and knowledge in the waiters and waitresses I engaged with. I realize that is not a scientific sample. There were no protestors on the beach, no-one with signs out saying stop this thing, either. I do not think there is much lack of local PR. Also tens of thousands of space tourists feeding the local economy made for some of the best live music I have encountered in decades. There was a level of energy and enthusiasm in this booming town that I have not seen in America in a long, long time.=E2=80=9D I was always bullish on Elon: from Tesla stock shorting, to not believing in electric cars, standing against any form of crony capitalism - and he is one of the prime examples of it worldwide, to still not believing in his end game (X - =E2=80=9Ceverything app=E2=80=9D, ala WeChat in China, which = is a disaster for Freedom, coupled with end of cash and CBDC and Social Credit system) in case of Twitter, although I really appreciate that his involvement in Twitter helped Free Speech and Freedom in general and it shines a badly needed light on the state of the social media and mainstream media in general. Especially on their enslavement by governments worldwide, they have become just a regime stenographer over time. BUT =E2=80=94> through all the lovely enthusiasm here, from all of You, and= from Dave personally, as we have discussed SpaceX etc=E2=80=A6I feel that need t= o come over to the US and to witness at least one rocket =F0=9F=9A=80 launch on my= on!!! As I told Dave already, I was hoping to visit Baikonur, Kazakhstan =F0=9F= =87=B0=F0=9F=87=BF, but not gonna happen, most probably, for quite some time. I=E2=80=99ve been= lucky to visit Peenemunde, Germany =F0=9F=87=A9=F0=9F=87=AA, that infamous V1 & V= 2 rocket site of Nazi Germany from WWII and I cannot recommend to visit it enough, to anyone interested in rockets, technology and WWII, too. Some readings to the Peenemunde below and can=E2=80=99t wait to see You all= at some of the SpaceX rocket launches. Thanks to all for great information shared here! https://www.dark-tourism.com/index.php/germany/15-countries/individual-chap= ters/223-peenemuende https://www.erih.net/i-want-to-go-there/site/the-peenemuende-historical-mus= eum https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/peene/peenemuende.html https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?entryid=3D3989 https://www.uncubemagazine.com/blog/12603627 https://www.porta-polonica.de/en/atlas-of-remembrance-places/peenemunde-pol= es-and-hitlers-miracle-weapon-v2-rocket http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/backgrounds/en/mediainfo/v2-rocket-gantry-at-p= eenemunde On Sat, 13 May 2023 at 1:41 AM, Dave Taht via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 4:18=E2=80=AFPM Darrell Budic > wrote: > > > > The TLDR; is probably: > > Thank you. > > > > > - site originally used a sort of short form Environmental Impact > Statement to certify for occasional falcon 9 launches, not exploding > starship testing > > - updates have been made to allow for the testing, and this is where th= e > recent lawsuits are centered > > - crazy things have been floated for the site (LNG shipping terminal, > 250MW power plant) that would have required new evals > > I do not think these things are crazy. This location has many > advantages, being both close by to an airport and a major commercial > harbor and shipyard > ( https://www.portofbrownsville.com/ ), which is also a source of > competent labor and other manufacturing. There are few locations I can > think of as good as this for rocket development left in the USA. > > The ecological damage even of a full load explosion on the ground is > trivial compared to the damage already done by development elsewhere. > > It IS too close to cities, being about 6? miles from san padre and 3 > from mexico, IMHO. A 40 second delay in the ATS system, coupled with a > full throttle and out of control rocket headed straight in those > directions would be bad. Aside from that water surrounds about half > the area. > > > - lots of this is probably traceable to Musk=E2=80=99s lack of local PR= and just > trying to crash forward and the recent train derailments in the news > raising awareness > > In the bars I visited, and the hotel I stayed at, approval of spacex > was roughly 100%, with a sense of pride and accomplishment and > knowledge in the waiters and waitresses I engaged with. I realize that > is not a scientific sample. There were no protestors on the beach, > no-one with signs out saying stop this thing, either. I do not think > there is much lack of local PR. Also tens of thousands of space > tourists feeding the local economy made for some of the best live > music I have encountered in decades. There was a level of energy and > enthusiasm in this booming town that I have not seen in America in a > long, long time. > > > - SpaceX seems to be realizing this site may not be what they need and > may to be looking at doing more at Kennedy Space Center in the future > > Certainly kennedy is more conventional but even more cramped. > > > - if the lawsuit against the EPA stays in Washington DC, it may be > trouble for SpaceX, if it moves to Texas at the EPAs request, it=E2=80=99= s more > likely to mean little overall > > I agree that texas puts a much higher priority on economic development > than some. > > > > > But you miss a lot of somewhat interesting policy and background on the > Environmental angle, which turns out to be more involved than I=E2=80=99d= have > thought from a distance. > > I will listen, but I suffered through the "snail darter" days a lot > back in the day. Environmental damage in this location is easily > offset elsewhere. > > > > > Also nice that the Planetary Society posts a full transcript if you=E2= =80=99d > rather read/skim than listen. > > > > > On May 12, 2023, at 4:53 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > > > > > could you summarize? > > > > > > On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 8:48=E2=80=AFAM Darrell Budic via Starlink > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Some intersting coverage on the route SpaceX took with their Boca > Chica site and environmental issues here: > > >> > > >> > https://www.planetary.org/planetary-radio/space-policy-edition-spacexs-st= arship-vs-the-environment-with-eric-roesch > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Starlink mailing list > > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Podcast: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ > > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > > > > > -- > Podcast: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --=20 All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.borsik@gmail.com --000000000000531a1f05fb8c470f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
THIS <3 =E2=80=A6I continue down below.

=E2=80=9CIn the bars I visited, and the hotel I stayed at, approval of spac= ex
wa= s roughly 100%, with a sense of pride and accomplishment and
knowledge in the waiters and waitresses I engaged with. I realize th= at
is not a scientific sample.=C2=A0 There were no pro= testors on the beach,
no-one with signs out saying sto= p this thing, either. I do not think
= there is much lac= k of local PR. Also tens of thousands of space
tourist= s feeding the local economy made for some of the best live
music I have encountered in decades. There was a level of energy and<= /span>
enthusiasm in this booming town that I have not seen i= n America in a
long, long time.=E2=80=9D

<= /font>

I was always bullish on Elo= n: from Tesla stock shorting, to not believing in electric cars, standing a= gainst any form of crony capitalism - and he is one of the prime examples o= f it worldwide, to still not believing in his end game (X - =E2=80=9Ceveryt= hing app=E2=80=9D, ala WeChat in China, which is a disaster for Freedom, co= upled with end of cash and CBDC and Social Credit system) in case of Twitte= r, although I really appreciate that his involvement in Twitter helped Free= Speech and Freedom in general and it shines a badly needed light on the st= ate of the social media and mainstream media in general. Especially on thei= r enslavement by governments worldwide, they have become just a regime sten= ographer over time.


BUT= =E2=80=94> through all the lovely enthusiasm here, from all of You, and= from Dave personally, as we have discussed SpaceX etc=E2=80=A6I feel that = need to come over to the US and to witness at least one rocket =F0=9F=9A=80= launch on my on!!!

As I told Dave already= , I was hoping to visit Baikonur, Kazakhstan =F0=9F=87=B0=F0=9F=87=BF, but = not gonna happen, most probably, for quite some time. I=E2=80=99ve been luc= ky to visit Peenemunde, Germany =F0=9F=87=A9=F0=9F=87=AA, that infamous V1 = & V2 rocket site of Nazi Germany from WWII and I cannot recommend to vi= sit it enough, to anyone interested in rockets, technology and WWII, too.

Some readings to the Peenemunde below and c= an=E2=80=99t wait to see You all at some of the SpaceX rocket launches. Tha= nks to all for great information shared here!

<= a href=3D"https://www.dark-tourism.com/index.php/germany/15-countries/indiv= idual-chapters/223-peenemuende">https://www.dark-tourism.com/index.php/germ= any/15-countries/individual-chapters/223-peenemuende


<= /div>
=

<= a href=3D"http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/backgrounds/en/mediainfo/v2-rocket-g= antry-at-peenemunde">http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/backgrounds/en/mediainfo/= v2-rocket-gantry-at-peenemunde





On Sat, 13 May 2023 at = 1:41 AM, Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 4:18=E2=80=AFPM Darrell Budic <budic@onholyground.com= > wrote:
>
> The TLDR; is probably:

Thank you.

>
> - site originally used a sort of short form Environmental Impact State= ment to certify for occasional falcon 9 launches, not exploding starship te= sting
> - updates have been made to allow for the testing, and this is where t= he recent lawsuits are centered
> - crazy things have been floated for the site (LNG shipping terminal, = 250MW power plant) that would have required new evals

I do not think these things are crazy. This location has many
advantages, being both close by to an airport and a major commercial
harbor and shipyard
( https://www.portofbrownsville.com/ ), which is also a sourc= e of
competent labor and other manufacturing. There are few locations I can
think of as good as this for rocket development left in the USA.

The ecological damage even of a full load explosion on the ground is
trivial compared to the damage already done by development elsewhere.

It IS too close to cities, being about 6? miles from san padre and 3
from mexico, IMHO. A 40 second delay in the ATS system, coupled with a
full throttle and out of control rocket headed straight in those
directions would be bad. Aside from that water surrounds about half
the area.

> - lots of this is probably traceable to Musk=E2=80=99s lack of local P= R and just trying to crash forward and the recent train derailments in the = news raising awareness

In the bars I visited, and the hotel I stayed at, approval of spacex
was roughly 100%, with a sense of pride and accomplishment and
knowledge in the waiters and waitresses I engaged with. I realize that
is not a scientific sample.=C2=A0 There were no protestors on the beach, no-one with signs out saying stop this thing, either. I do not think
there is much lack of local PR. Also tens of thousands of space
tourists feeding the local economy made for some of the best live
music I have encountered in decades. There was a level of energy and
enthusiasm in this booming town that I have not seen in America in a
long, long time.

> - SpaceX seems to be realizing this site may not be what they need and= may to be looking at doing more at Kennedy Space Center in the future

Certainly kennedy is more conventional but even more cramped.

> - if the lawsuit against the EPA stays in Washington DC, it may be tro= uble for SpaceX, if it moves to Texas at the EPAs request, it=E2=80=99s mor= e likely to mean little overall

I agree that texas puts a much higher priority on economic development
than some.

>
> But you miss a lot of somewhat interesting policy and background on th= e Environmental angle, which turns out to be more involved than I=E2=80=99d= have thought from a distance.

I will listen, but I suffered through the "snail darter" days a l= ot
back in the day. Environmental damage in this location is easily
offset elsewhere.

>
> Also nice that the Planetary Society posts a full transcript if you=E2= =80=99d rather read/skim than listen.
>
> > On May 12, 2023, at 4:53 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > could you summarize?
> >
> > On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 8:48=E2=80=AFAM Darrell Budic via Starlin= k
> > <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Some intersting coverage on the route SpaceX took with their = Boca Chica site and environmental issues here:
> >>
> >> https://www.planetary.org/planetary-radio/spac= e-policy-edition-spacexs-starship-vs-the-environment-with-eric-roesch > >> _______________________________________________
> >> Starlink mailing list
> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/= starlink
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Podcast: https://= www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
> > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
>


--
Podcast: https://www.linked= in.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
--
All the best,

Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

<= a href=3D"https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik">https://www.linkedin= .com/in/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp:=C2=A0+4219194167= 14=C2=A0
iMessage, mobile:=C2=A0+420775230885
Skype: casioa5302ca
= frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
--000000000000531a1f05fb8c470f--