From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x1134.google.com (mail-yw1-x1134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 659483B29D for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2024 07:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x1134.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-62a080a171dso40025627b3.0 for ; Tue, 04 Jun 2024 04:21:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1717500071; x=1718104871; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3NeCpotRXmaFTQkGW1sKV/7C5f1cqEHnM1SLpp9NNz4=; b=NHqsOSjOuwhCMWJZm9EdAvo/5q283Aqugrl6DT6Xf0B4h4TbN6V5O7d2uaMQx6vYgD EWtqmQPCMUvpWNIcrP4eiOi0kT/+rx9Agz2moXTH3V6CJwbnVkkCDNyY6bfzg6UALZCH LvXPWbulpQhPJEJZON2ufOXJrNm0wgE05zsvP9ra1ToSr2U7H841WuSlYCN+cFN6yrTF 2UZvMayCchJCe+8mc+0XBfCPX5P1aGP1IF4BH8qH4Us4IXefYSKCONYuJsbI2D2VUSTh CvUXE7geTIGtVf0rLiJDwYFhG0ilVmwlalcYkVNaWscgQkFjv6yJ49bfCuiCHdoZgKE2 VY9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1717500071; x=1718104871; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3NeCpotRXmaFTQkGW1sKV/7C5f1cqEHnM1SLpp9NNz4=; b=OYpd+cp428Qh3KtJ2BCNRkvFNyN6C89wE9xxYfBYxWHMiaUfVkROcq4pnC8o1Tjk/v 7kB8ItoqMnFKZx77p4Cehrqci2DMC7g49p8V4m+WzoFsW20Pbtkid/AZnv37gbWq94MK 7F67kf4iSKouxm8GyQNuKs5GxiQ1JBTcYRpscABk5LinN5Cwn/g9VQdaV5BTfyExUvrj UWCVOmms4pIG+Ad3FXdtJkdjC1+lomlZDDYnK2ghvqIwtpGhbIWy27DYKp6AXiHCJZIS IxAUmnIXOF81Z9lLW3afkc2T+ANm9Mml48dLX6wOB+c9ATktnxeHW5SWTdmcqKQ1iGNL 7uBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyPUycKfIGqqcRGs3KZotYP+LsCaOPYikZMWxfOXBKIpxv4MXOC Hr8KAg28tB/nrBRBDq+DlZLjIy6CTM7APAWIUvjnRcyCpkv2P7CWbwiT4mykcwqHrPZbnLOMnpr UZuwITPOmMjLhONMwv4rtfcrRQe9ojJwM X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEhDBz79RrZ5RANDS+uO92/xqk7jEEfsJ83JmjJkuPE5A67d4trnCNuFlZgUY/kGmugnu8eikH0/A2w4E75z3Y= X-Received: by 2002:a25:2b89:0:b0:dfa:94c4:72e2 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dfa94c474f7mr7117400276.34.1717500070614; Tue, 04 Jun 2024 04:21:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <32AD770E-336E-4CF4-8B1B-8AE7353981CC@ieee.org> <030p06nr-4169-9341-nn73-4n06nprp9863@ynat.uz> <3F548B50-D476-4E54-B18E-3418978105CE@ieee.org> In-Reply-To: From: Frantisek Borsik Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 13:20:34 +0200 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009c61bb061a0ea539" Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX/Starlink says it's ready for a fall satellite-to-cell service with T-Mobile X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2024 11:21:11 -0000 --0000000000009c61bb061a0ea539 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some additional reading from William Webb: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/satellite-direct-device-workable-william-web= b-sonke/?trackingId=3DSjha4DY8SqONFA9g%2Bb5b%2Bw%3D%3D All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.borsik@gmail.com On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 at 2:54=E2=80=AFAM David Lang wrote: > Eugene Y Chang wrote: > > >> On Jun 3, 2024, at 12:41 PM, David Lang wrote: > >> > >> Eugene Y Chang wrote: > >> > >>> I expect low data rate because the distance will fall back to a lower > coding rate. > >> > >> I think it's going to be more a matter of very large cells, so many > people sharing the available bandwidth > >> > >>> I observe a difference in my phone=E2=80=99s batter life between urba= n and > rural usage. I expect the battery life to be significantly reduced with > Starlink. > >>> And yes=E2=80=A6 if the phone isn=E2=80=99t communicating then the ba= ttery life isn=E2=80=99t > drawn down much=E2=80=A6 > >> > >> In my experience, a phone that's trying to find a tower uses more powe= r > than one that has a tower, but is otherwise idle > > > > When the phone is searching for a tower, it is transmitting at maximum > power. > > Then, the phone adjusts the transmit power according to the distance to > the tower, > > In an urban environment, the distance to the tower is usually less (i.e= . > smaller cells due to subscriber density). > > In a rural environment, there is more distance to the tower, and the > phone is transmitting at higher power (i.e., towers are farther apart for > larger cells due to fewer subscribers per tower, up to the max tower > separation.) > > When you are mobile, the power is proportionate to the mean distance to > the tower during your operations. > > and for direct-to-satellite, it's going to be a max power situation, > similar to > rural. > > But when a phone is not connected, how frequent are it's searches for > towers > (especially if it has multiple bands to check) compared to the 'keepalive= ' > pings > when it is connected? if it's doing more transmissions for it's search an= d > attempts to connect than it does while connected and just confirming the > connection, that could eat more power. > > David Lang --0000000000009c61bb061a0ea539 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=C2=A0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">Signal, Telegram, Whats= App: +421919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com



On Tue, Jun 4, 2024 = at 2:54=E2=80=AFAM David Lang <david@la= ng.hm> wrote:
Eugene Y Chang wrote:

>> On Jun 3, 2024, at 12:41 PM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>
>> Eugene Y Chang wrote:
>>
>>> I expect low data rate because the distance will fall back to = a lower coding rate.
>>
>> I think it's going to be more a matter of very large cells, so= many people sharing the available bandwidth
>>
>>> I observe a difference in my phone=E2=80=99s batter life betwe= en urban and rural usage. I expect the battery life to be significantly red= uced with Starlink.
>>> And yes=E2=80=A6 if the phone isn=E2=80=99t communicating then= the battery life isn=E2=80=99t drawn down much=E2=80=A6
>>
>> In my experience, a phone that's trying to find a tower uses m= ore power than one that has a tower, but is otherwise idle
>
> When the phone is searching for a tower, it is transmitting at maximum= power.
> Then, the phone adjusts the transmit power according to the distance t= o the tower,
> In an urban environment, the distance to the tower is usually less (i.= e. smaller cells due to subscriber density).
> In a rural environment, there is more distance to the tower, and the p= hone is transmitting at higher power (i.e., towers are farther apart for la= rger cells due to fewer subscribers per tower, up to the max tower separati= on.)
> When you are mobile, the power is proportionate to the mean distance t= o the tower during your operations.

and for direct-to-satellite, it's going to be a max power situation, si= milar to
rural.

But when a phone is not connected, how frequent are it's searches for t= owers
(especially if it has multiple bands to check) compared to the 'keepali= ve' pings
when it is connected? if it's doing more transmissions for it's sea= rch and
attempts to connect than it does while connected and just confirming the connection, that could eat more power.

David Lang
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