From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com (mail-qt1-x82a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 735133CB37; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 07:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id z24so1160569qtn.8; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 04:50:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MTUXeNhU153d6EdveB6Fo6l7Z3q2KYfPKfLS6Bv87Us=; b=KUUboQfeEvvG7SUnvXUyRrZ9sW+IvIO/pZhfbV1ikTswADqLMJoibUFgq4ihWwhKxm /Whwp9epnBAS7NfceH9+rM2Uqe9hV+IhzNpKblJTET0CfdQAAwSszI2+4EiXwnGt+qfl DuYmzM3PieJcDvXGAdXpLNMslIBzItfHgsZt5AN45Hr9jm4rtjmz8pYP/az6E/sxIcTp G6c/n4h/6Oeoe1AwXyMxsBZ0movQvFfj7P9dCw2PlvLdPRuBkgZ0CBMT2DP5K33+hXap B4znbl5DSbP88g/O/L9I/gJ28RpL+7MD6sn4cQpejI1zSn9Yw9L2+POD2QY0y0XrFMz3 LFDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MTUXeNhU153d6EdveB6Fo6l7Z3q2KYfPKfLS6Bv87Us=; b=UMu6U5oTNt+5slrcryCak/VhU29Jzq+VW5mpLl26goqja0gNk8MsNQOxOCpKRdtPg6 k/DxZ4I+edglH9h02EJLOVhNtvlMpTV3dpA8/0cxETs/iTCNTklxRM211ZVXYjaAtqXB LuJZ6ttNtdQivASbF7xmfzGLQvMhuXZxACyk5yZRMyOLH7oB/1SGn4FDDJ4Z8ABNj+oC HlSxfyU4qs1ioYXBSWsWtRJiBxeUlarLNZQxccOu+IIBQJWm6D3+6fF1wZno+k3IhapI gzAIijTJGI4hfYRJD8s9my5nxrDEZ2tdw/tMJTyTKH1/Eq32YfA3ULobUqDQeTsQyfBU XXHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533sMGVuOkv5mLGx08ucoyUr17ncgNwf23XwDATedWBcjkRYynQp ehpgiSMg2kVxAce0GW2HAMm6LM22ixjBsG84vwM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw1//VB1zg1Scdd2ZkTab1dzQe8iuE/S6jQOVRG3lgJWNjwNHZxBBddz9DA0VE4nEdDkNvqJBeh5ZBV/7HVCZ0= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:44da:: with SMTP id b26mr22468125qto.81.1628077802996; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 04:50:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <058681B8-89EB-42ED-8E82-4048BA3C9504@cable.comcast.com> <649DC4B024D74B8BA6926ABFCD52DC79@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <649DC4B024D74B8BA6926ABFCD52DC79@SRA6> From: Jonathan Morton Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 14:49:52 +0300 Message-ID: To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , Simon Barber , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] Of interest: Comcast AQM Paper X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 11:50:03 -0000 > I assume by WiFi what is really meant is devices that have at least one W= iFi (layer 1/layer 2) interface. While there are queues in the MAC sublayer= , there is really no queue management functionality ... yet ... AFAIK. I kn= ow IEEE P802.11bd in conjunction w/ IEEE 1609 is working on implementing a = few rudimentary queue mgmt functions. > > That said, seems any AQM in such devices would more than likely be in lay= er 3 and above. Linux-based CPE devices have AQM functionality integrated into the Wifi stack. The AQM itself operates at layer 3, but the Linux Wifi stack implementation uses information from layers 2 and 4 to improve scheduling decisions, eg. airtime-fairness and flow-isolation (FQ). This works best on soft-MAC Wifi hardware, such as ath9k/10k and MT76, where this information is most readily available to software. In principle it could also be implemented in the MAC, but I don't know of any vendor that's done that yet. - Jonathan Morton