From: Bruce Perens <bruce@perens.com>
To: rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com>
Cc: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>,
Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
dan <dandenson@gmail.com>,
Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>,
libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 14:08:19 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAK2MWOsp+C37Rd+22xUiVV4TsmBGRdOa91gGDwoExw=iBNegsQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9edd011a1a6615470b34e0837896a15f@rjmcmahon.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1731 bytes --]
On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 1:44 PM rjmcmahon via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> The point of the thread is that we still do not treat digital
> communications infrastructure as life support critical.
When I was younger there was a standard way to do this. Fire alarms had a
dedicated pair directly to the fire department or a local alarm station.
This wasn't dial-tone, it was a DC pair that would drop a trouble
notification if DC was interrupted, and I think it would reverse polarity
to indicate alarm. If DC was interrupted, that would also turn off the
boiler in the building.
Today my home fire alarms are wireless and have cellular back to their main
Comcast connection, and detect CO, smoke, and temperature. This would not
meet insurance requirements for a commercial building, they still have all
of the sensors wired, with cellular backup.
I don't think you are considering what life-support-critical digital
communications would really cost. Start with metal conduit and
fire-resistant wiring throughout the structure. Provide redundant power for
*every* fan-out box (we just had a 24-hour power interruption here due to
storms). AT&T provides 4 hour power for "Lightspeed" tombstone boxes that
fan out telephone, beyond that a truck has to drive out and plug in a
generator, or you are out of luck if it's a wide-are outage like we just
had. Wire areas in a redundant loop rather than a tree. Supervise every
home so that interruptions are serviced automatically. Provide a 4-hour SLA.
The phone company used to do what you are asking for. The high prices this
required are the main reason that everyone has jumped off of using the
legacy telco for telephony.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-03-25 21:08 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 169+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <mailman.2651.1672779463.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
2023-01-03 22:58 ` [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA David P. Reed
2023-01-09 14:44 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 15:26 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 17:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 17:04 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Jeremy Austin
2023-01-09 18:33 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:06 ` David Collier-Brown
2023-01-09 18:54 ` [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] " Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 19:19 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:56 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-01-09 21:00 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 10:02 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 15:08 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 15:50 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:06 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:19 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:12 ` [Starlink] " dan
2023-03-13 16:36 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 17:26 ` dan
2023-03-13 17:37 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 18:34 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:14 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 18:51 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:32 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 20:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:28 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 4:27 ` [Starlink] On FiWi rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 11:10 ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-14 16:54 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:06 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:11 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-14 17:35 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:54 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-14 18:14 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 19:18 ` dan
2023-03-14 19:30 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-14 20:06 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 19:30 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 23:30 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 0:11 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-15 5:20 ` Bruce Perens
[not found] ` <CALQXh-PUgix7ApkTi5W8TMKVZfE4fyNk4WeiocZ6QU6R-m7naA@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-15 17:05 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 17:44 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 19:22 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 17:32 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:42 ` dan
2023-03-15 18:03 ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-15 19:33 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 19:39 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 21:52 ` David Lang
2023-03-15 22:04 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 22:08 ` dan
2023-03-15 17:43 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-15 17:49 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:53 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 17:59 ` dan
2023-03-15 19:39 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 16:38 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " Dave Taht
2023-03-17 18:21 ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-17 19:01 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-17 19:19 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 20:37 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-17 20:57 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 22:50 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-18 18:18 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-18 19:57 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-18 20:40 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-19 10:26 ` Michael Richardson
2023-03-19 21:00 ` [Starlink] On metrics rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 0:26 ` dan
2023-03-20 3:03 ` David Lang
[not found] ` <CAJUtOOgC8O2jvT7eZ0O8nU8kCPOeCgVPTBNKaA3ZqLpJf4obJw@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-20 21:28 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi dan
[not found] ` <CAJUtOOhPsiC=9SM3rUUxWuh4euLbDxVqcrM6hioDykZaWYfy6Q@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-20 22:02 ` [Starlink] On FiWi power envelope rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 23:47 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-21 0:10 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
[not found] ` <CAJUtOOhinMu4Mv9EW-PB7ef9EHWL3inpeABUqFt0UDAw47MixA@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-21 11:26 ` [Starlink] Annoyed at 5/1 Mbps Rich Brown
2023-03-21 12:29 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 12:30 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:08 ` rjmcmahon
[not found] ` <CAJUtOOiMk+PBK2ZRFsZA8EFEgqfHY3Zpw9=kAkJZpePx9OzeMw@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-21 19:58 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 20:06 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-25 19:39 ` [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:09 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 20:47 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:15 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-25 20:43 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 21:08 ` Bruce Perens [this message]
2023-03-25 22:04 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:50 ` dan
2023-03-25 23:21 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:35 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 0:04 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26 0:07 ` Nathan Owens
2023-03-26 0:50 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26 8:45 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-03-26 18:54 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 0:28 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 0:57 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:57 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 23:33 ` David Lang
2023-03-25 23:38 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:20 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 18:29 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 10:34 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 18:12 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 20:57 ` David Lang
2023-03-26 21:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 21:26 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 17:06 ` Larry Press
2023-03-28 17:47 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 18:11 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-28 18:46 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 20:37 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 21:31 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 22:18 ` dan
2023-03-28 22:42 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 8:28 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 12:27 ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-03-29 13:22 ` Doc Searls
2023-03-29 13:40 ` [Starlink] Enabling a production model Dave Taht
2023-03-29 14:54 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-29 16:53 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-29 18:33 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:13 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-29 17:34 ` dan
2023-03-29 20:03 ` David Lang
2023-04-02 12:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:46 ` Rich Brown
2023-03-29 19:02 ` tom
2023-03-29 19:08 ` Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:31 ` tom
2023-03-29 19:11 ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-04-02 11:39 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 13:46 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-29 14:57 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:23 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 19:02 ` [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 19:37 ` dan
2023-03-25 20:27 ` [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 23:15 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [Rpm] On FiWi David Lang
2023-03-14 18:05 ` [Starlink] " Steve Stroh
2023-03-13 19:33 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA dan
2023-03-13 19:52 ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 21:00 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:27 ` dan
2023-03-14 9:11 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:45 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:02 ` [Starlink] When do you drop? Always! Dave Taht
2023-03-13 21:42 ` Ulrich Speidel
2023-03-13 16:04 ` [Starlink] UnderBloat on fiber and wisps Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:09 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:35 ` Mike Puchol
2023-01-09 20:49 ` [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:13 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:47 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 18:32 ` Rodney W. Grimes
2023-01-11 20:01 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 20:09 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-12 8:14 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-12 17:49 ` Robert McMahon
2023-01-09 20:20 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 20:46 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 20:59 ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 21:06 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:18 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-10 17:36 ` David P. Reed
2023-03-27 8:45 [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat David Fernández
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