Re: [Starlink] insanely great waveform result for starlink

["Luis A. Cornejo" <luis.a.cornejo@gmail.com>]

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Johnathan,

Is your IPv6 address routable and are you accepting pings?

-Luis

On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 4:09 PM Jonathan Bennett <
jonathanbennett@hackaday.com> wrote:

> The irtt run finished a few seconds before the flent run, but here are the
> results:
>
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FKve13ssUMW1LLWOXLM2931Yx6uMHw8K/view?usp=share_link
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZXd64A0pfUedLr3FyhDNTHA7vxv8S2Gk/view?usp=share_link
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rx64UPQHHz3IMNiJtb1oFqtqw2DvhvEE/view?usp=share_link
>
>
> [image: image.png]
> [image: image.png]
>
>
> Jonathan Bennett
> Hackaday.com
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 3:30 PM Nathan Owens via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> Here's Luis's run -- the top line below the edge of the graph is 200ms
>> [image: Screenshot 2023-01-13 at 1.30.03 PM.png]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 1:25 PM Luis A. Cornejo <luis.a.cornejo@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Here is a run the way I think you wanted it.
>>>
>>> irtt running for 5 min to your dallas server, followed by a waveform
>>> test, then a few seconds of inactivity, cloudflare test, a few more secs of
>>> nothing, flent test to dallas. Packet capture is currently uploading (will
>>> be done in 20 min or so), irtt JSON also in there (.zip file):
>>>
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FLWqrzNcM8aK-ZXQywNkZGFR81Fnzn-F?usp=share_link
>>>
>>> -Luis
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 2:50 PM Dave Taht via Starlink <
>>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 12:30 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here's the data visualization for Johnathan's Data
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: Screenshot 2023-01-13 at 12.29.15 PM.png]
>>>>>
>>>>> You can see the path change at :12, :27, :42, :57 after the minute.
>>>>> Some paths are clearly busier than others with increased loss, latency, and
>>>>> jitter.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am so glad to see loss and bounded delay here. Also a bit of rigor
>>>> regarding what traffic was active locally vs on the path would be nice,
>>>> although it seems to line up with the known 15s starlink switchover thing
>>>> (need a name for this), in this case, doing a few speedtests
>>>> while that irtt is running would show the impact(s) of whatever else
>>>> they are up to.
>>>>
>>>> It would also be my hope that the loss distribution in the middle
>>>> portion of this data is good, not bursty, but we don't have a tool to take
>>>> apart that. (I am so hopeless at json)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 10:09 AM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ll run my visualization code on this result this afternoon and
>>>>>> report back!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 9:41 AM Jonathan Bennett via Starlink <
>>>>>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The irtt command, run with normal, light usage:
>>>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SiVCiUYnx7nDTxIVOY5w-z20S2O059rA/view?usp=share_link
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jonathan Bennett
>>>>>>> Hackaday.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> packet caps would be nice... all this is very exciting news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd so love for one or more of y'all reporting such great uplink
>>>>>>>> results nowadays to duplicate and re-plot the original irtt tests we
>>>>>>>> did:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> irtt client -i3ms -d300s myclosestservertoyou.starlink.taht.net -o
>>>>>>>> whatever.json
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They MUST have changed their scheduling to get such amazing uplink
>>>>>>>> results, in addition to better queue management.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (for the record, my servers are de, london, fremont, sydney, dallas,
>>>>>>>> newark, atlanta, singapore, mumbai)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's an R and gnuplot script for plotting that output around here
>>>>>>>> somewhere (I have largely personally put down the starlink project,
>>>>>>>> loaning out mine) - that went by on this list... I should have
>>>>>>>> written
>>>>>>>> a blog entry so I can find that stuff again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 9:02 AM Jonathan Bennett via Starlink
>>>>>>>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 6:28 AM Ulrich Speidel via Starlink <
>>>>>>>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> On 13/01/2023 6:13 pm, Ulrich Speidel wrote:
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > From Auckland, New Zealand, using a roaming subscription, it
>>>>>>>> puts me
>>>>>>>> >> > in touch with a server 2000 km away. OK then:
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > IP address: nix six.
>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>> >> > My thoughts shall follow later.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> OK, so here we go.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I'm always a bit skeptical when it comes to speed tests -
>>>>>>>> they're really
>>>>>>>> >> laden with so many caveats that it's not funny. I took our new
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> >> Starlink kit home in December to give it a try and the other day
>>>>>>>> finally
>>>>>>>> >> got around to set it up. It's on a roaming subscription because
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> >> badly built-up campus really isn't ideal in terms of a clear
>>>>>>>> view of the
>>>>>>>> >> sky. Oh - and did I mention that I used the Starlink Ethernet
>>>>>>>> adapter,
>>>>>>>> >> not the WiFi?
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Caveat 1: Location, location. I live in a place where the best
>>>>>>>> Starlink
>>>>>>>> >> promises is about 1/3 in terms of data rate you can actually get
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> >> fibre to the home at under half of Starlink's price. Read: There
>>>>>>>> are few
>>>>>>>> >> Starlink users around. I might be the only one in my suburb.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Caveat 2: Auckland has three Starlink gateways close by:
>>>>>>>> Clevedon (which
>>>>>>>> >> is at a stretch daytrip cycling distance from here), Te Hana and
>>>>>>>> Puwera,
>>>>>>>> >> the most distant of the three and about 130 km away from me as
>>>>>>>> the crow
>>>>>>>> >> flies. Read: My dishy can use any satellite that any of these
>>>>>>>> three can
>>>>>>>> >> see, and then depending on where I put it and how much of the
>>>>>>>> southern
>>>>>>>> >> sky it can see, maybe also the one in Hinds, 840 km away,
>>>>>>>> although that
>>>>>>>> >> is obviously stretching it a bit. Either way, that's plenty of
>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>> >> for my bits to travel without needing a lot of handovers. Why?
>>>>>>>> Easy: If
>>>>>>>> >> your nearest teleport is close by, then the set of satellites
>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>> >> teleport can see and the set that you can see is almost the
>>>>>>>> same, so you
>>>>>>>> >> can essentially stick with the same satellite while it's in view
>>>>>>>> for you
>>>>>>>> >> because it'll also be in view for the teleport. Pretty much any
>>>>>>>> bird
>>>>>>>> >> above you will do.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> And because I don't get a lot of competition from other users in
>>>>>>>> my area
>>>>>>>> >> vying for one of the few available satellites that can see both
>>>>>>>> us and
>>>>>>>> >> the teleport, this is about as good as it gets at 37S latitude.
>>>>>>>> If I'd
>>>>>>>> >> want it any better, I'd have to move a lot further south.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> It'd be interesting to hear from Jonathan what the availability
>>>>>>>> of home
>>>>>>>> >> broadband is like in the Dallas area. I note that it's at a lower
>>>>>>>> >> latitude (33N) than Auckland, but the difference isn't huge. I
>>>>>>>> notice
>>>>>>>> >> two teleports each about 160 km away, which is also not too bad.
>>>>>>>> I also
>>>>>>>> >> note Starlink availability in the area is restricted at the
>>>>>>>> moment -
>>>>>>>> >> oversubscribed? But if Jonathan gets good data rates, then that
>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>> >> that competition for bird capacity can't be too bad - for
>>>>>>>> whatever reason.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I'm in Southwest Oklahoma, but Dallas is the nearby Starlink
>>>>>>>> gateway. In cities, like Dallas, and Lawton where I live, there are good
>>>>>>>> broadband options. But there are also many people that live outside cities,
>>>>>>>> and the options are much worse. The low density userbase in rural Oklahoma
>>>>>>>> and Texas is probably ideal conditions for Starlink.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Caveat 3: Backhaul. There isn't just one queue between me and
>>>>>>>> whatever I
>>>>>>>> >> talk to in terms of my communications. Traceroute shows about 10
>>>>>>>> hops
>>>>>>>> >> between me and the University of Auckland via Starlink. That's 10
>>>>>>>> >> queues, not one. Many of them will have cross traffic. So it's a
>>>>>>>> bit
>>>>>>>> >> hard to tell where our packets really get to wait or where they
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> >> dropped. The insidious bit here is that a lot of them will be
>>>>>>>> between 1
>>>>>>>> >> Gb/s and 10 Gb/s links, and with a bit of cross traffic, they
>>>>>>>> can all
>>>>>>>> >> turn into bottlenecks. This isn't like a narrowband GEO link of
>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>> >> Mb/s where it's obvious where the dominant long latency
>>>>>>>> bottleneck in
>>>>>>>> >> your TCP connection's path is. Read: It's pretty hard to tell
>>>>>>>> whether a
>>>>>>>> >> drop in "speed" is due to a performance issue in the Starlink
>>>>>>>> system or
>>>>>>>> >> somewhere between Starlink's systems and the target system.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I see RTTs here between 20 ms and 250 ms, where the physical
>>>>>>>> latency
>>>>>>>> >> should be under 15 ms. So there's clearly a bit of buffer here
>>>>>>>> along the
>>>>>>>> >> chain that occasionally fills up.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Caveat 4: Handovers. Handover between birds and teleports is
>>>>>>>> inevitably
>>>>>>>> >> associated with a change in RTT and in most cases also available
>>>>>>>> >> bandwidth. Plus your packets now arrive at a new queue on a new
>>>>>>>> >> satellite while your TCP is still trying to respond to whatever
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> >> thought the queue on the previous bird was doing. Read: Whatever
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> >> cwnd is immediately after a handover, it's probably not what it
>>>>>>>> should be.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I ran a somewhat hamstrung (sky view restricted) set of four
>>>>>>>> Ookla
>>>>>>>> >> speedtest.net tests each to five local servers. Average upload
>>>>>>>> rate was
>>>>>>>> >> 13 Mb/s, average down 75.5 Mb/s. Upload to the server of the ISP
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> >> Starlink seems to be buying its local connectivity from (Vocus
>>>>>>>> Group)
>>>>>>>> >> varied between 3.04 and 14.38 Mb/s, download between 23.33 and
>>>>>>>> 52.22
>>>>>>>> >> Mb/s, with RTTs between 37 and 56 ms not correlating well to
>>>>>>>> rates
>>>>>>>> >> observed. In fact, they were the ISP with consistently the worst
>>>>>>>> rates.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Another ISP (MyRepublic) scored between 11.81 and 21.81 Mb/s up
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> >> between 106.5 and 183.8 Mb/s down, again with RTTs badly
>>>>>>>> correlating
>>>>>>>> >> with rates. Average RTT was the same as for Vocus.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Note the variation though: More or less a factor of two between
>>>>>>>> highest
>>>>>>>> >> and lowest rates for each ISP. Did MyRepublic just get lucky in
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> >> tests? Or is there something systematic behind this? Way too few
>>>>>>>> tests
>>>>>>>> >> to tell.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> What these tests do is establish a ballpark.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> I'm currently repeating tests with dish placed on a trestle
>>>>>>>> closer to
>>>>>>>> >> the heavens. This seems to have translated into fewer outages /
>>>>>>>> ping
>>>>>>>> >> losses (around 1/4 of what I had yesterday with dishy on the
>>>>>>>> ground on
>>>>>>>> >> my deck). Still good enough for a lengthy video Skype call with
>>>>>>>> my folks
>>>>>>>> >> in Germany, although they did comment about reduced video
>>>>>>>> quality. But
>>>>>>>> >> maybe that was the lighting or the different background as I
>>>>>>>> wasn't in
>>>>>>>> >> my usual spot with my laptop when I called them.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Clear view of the sky is king for Starlink reliability. I've got
>>>>>>>> my dishy mounted on the back fence, looking up over an empty field, so it's
>>>>>>>> pretty much best-case scenario here.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> ****************************************************************
>>>>>>>> >> Dr. Ulrich Speidel
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> School of Computer Science
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> The University of Auckland
>>>>>>>> >> u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz
>>>>>>>> >> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
>>>>>>>> >> ****************************************************************
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >> Starlink mailing list
>>>>>>>> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>>>>>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> > Starlink mailing list
>>>>>>>> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>>>>>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
>>>>>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Starlink mailing list
>>>>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Starlink mailing list
>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>

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