[Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Dave Taht]

Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
measures latency under load.

I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
details here:


https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency

IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
folk of this new app, first.

-- 
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Nathan Owens]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 953 bytes --]

Here's a test I did today: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305



On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
> measures latency under load.
>
> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
> details here:
>
>
> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
>
> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
> folk of this new app, first.
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1933 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: IMG_3074.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpg, Size: 223771 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Dave Taht]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1954 bytes --]

Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right.
:/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I
measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list,
this was why I started it):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit

I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 99th
percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about their
calculations in the coming weeks.

I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals
than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what
number do you pick?

And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.



On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:

> Here's a test I did today:
> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
>> measures latency under load.
>>
>> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
>> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
>> details here:
>>
>>
>> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
>>
>> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
>> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
>> folk of this new app, first.
>>
>> --
>> FQ World Domination pending:
>> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>

-- 
FQ World Domination pending:
https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3527 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: IMG_3074.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 223771 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Brennen Smith]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3150 bytes --]

Hey all,

Here's some details about the final figures:

1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same
methodology and medium
2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency
3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"

Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing
more awareness to this issue.

Cheers,

Brennen Smith VP Technology

(206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com

linkedin.com/in/brennensmith <https://www.linkedin.com/in/brennensmith/>


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right.
> :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I
> measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list,
> this was why I started it):
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit
>
> I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the
> 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about
> their calculations in the coming weeks.
>
> I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals
> than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what
> number do you pick?
>
> And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
>
>> Here's a test I did today:
>> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
>>> measures latency under load.
>>>
>>> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
>>> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
>>> details here:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
>>>
>>> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
>>> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
>>> folk of this new app, first.
>>>
>>> --
>>> FQ World Domination pending:
>>> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>>
>>
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>

-- 

This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff 
Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or 
otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for 
the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, 
distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you 
have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email 
and delete the original message and any copies.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 6461 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: IMG_3074.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 223771 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Möller, Sebastian]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4166 bytes --]

Hi Brennan,

really cool stuff!


On May 13, 2022, at 01:35, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com<mailto:brennen@ookla.com>> wrote:

Hey all,

Here's some details about the final figures:

1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same methodology and medium

Where could I find a technical description of that method?

2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency

Is that one of the load bearing flows or a non load bearing parallel flow that has successfully finished the TCP handshake?

3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"

I wonder whether reporting something like a 95 or 99% quantiles (so either 1& and 99%, or 5% and 95%) in addition to min and max and interquartile mean would be possible? And since you use the 25 and 75% values already, maybe these as well?

Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing more awareness to this issue.

For sure, so far many discussions about debugging/reducing bufferbloat started with people wanting to use the ubiquitious speedtest.nat nodes (where finding a close by one typically is easy/possible); and now this will actually work (assuming they use Android or iOS clients).

Question: will the apps for the other OSs as well as the CLI and the web version also be changed to include these numbers in the foreseeable future?


Kind Regards
Sebastian



Cheers,

Brennen Smith

VP Technology

(206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com<mailto:brennen@ookla.com>
linkedin.com/in/brennensmith


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list, this was why I started it): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit

I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about their calculations in the coming weeks.

I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what number do you pick?

And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.



On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
Here's a test I did today: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305

[cid:180ba86ed9c36eb9f291]


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
measures latency under load.

I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
details here:


https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency

IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
folk of this new app, first.

--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC


This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the original message and any copies.
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 6792 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: IMG_3074.jpeg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 82378 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Luis A. Cornejo]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4851 bytes --]

Square dishy. North of Houston, speeds have been subpar recently compared
to initial setup in late March (100+/10+). My cell is probably saturated
considering my latitude, bird density, and possibly base station.

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5118600624



On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 2:09 PM Möller, Sebastian <SMoeller@dpz.eu> wrote:

> Hi Brennan,
>
> really cool stuff!
>
>
> On May 13, 2022, at 01:35, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Here's some details about the final figures:
>
> 1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same
> methodology and medium
>
>
> Where could I find a technical description of that method?
>
> 2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency
>
>
> Is that one of the load bearing flows or a non load bearing parallel flow
> that has successfully finished the TCP handshake?
>
> 3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"
>
>
> I wonder whether reporting something like a 95 or 99% quantiles (so either
> 1& and 99%, or 5% and 95%) in addition to min and max and interquartile
> mean would be possible? And since you use the 25 and 75% values already,
> maybe these as well?
>
> Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing
> more awareness to this issue.
>
>
> For sure, so far many discussions about debugging/reducing bufferbloat
> started with people wanting to use the ubiquitious speedtest.nat nodes
> (where finding a close by one typically is easy/possible); and now this
> will actually work (assuming they use Android or iOS clients).
>
> Question: will the apps for the other OSs as well as the CLI and the web
> version also be changed to include these numbers in the foreseeable future?
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Sebastian
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brennen Smith
>
> VP Technology
>
> (206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
> linkedin.com/in/brennensmith
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right.
> :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I
> measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list,
> this was why I started it):
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit
>
> I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the
> 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about
> their calculations in the coming weeks.
>
> I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals
> than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what
> number do you pick?
>
> And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
> Here's a test I did today:
> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
> measures latency under load.
>
> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
> details here:
>
>
> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
>
> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
> folk of this new app, first.
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
>
> This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff
> Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or
> otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for
> the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy,
> distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email
> and delete the original message and any copies.
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 7858 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: IMG_3074.jpeg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 82378 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: image_123986672.JPG --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 188464 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Livingood, Jason]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7446 bytes --]

Brennan – It’d also be nice to be able to visit https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5118600624 and expand/see the working latency numbers that Luis has below in his results image. 😊

Jason

From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of "Luis A. Cornejo" <luis.a.cornejo@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:43
To: "Möller, Sebastian" <SMoeller@dpz.eu>
Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

Square dishy. North of Houston, speeds have been subpar recently compared to initial setup in late March (100+/10+). My cell is probably saturated considering my latitude, bird density, and possibly base station.

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5118600624<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5118600624__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQYmOWd0Q$>

[cid:image001.jpg@01D86A99.40AD2820]


On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 2:09 PM Möller, Sebastian <SMoeller@dpz.eu<mailto:SMoeller@dpz.eu>> wrote:
Hi Brennan,

really cool stuff!



On May 13, 2022, at 01:35, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com<mailto:brennen@ookla.com>> wrote:

Hey all,

Here's some details about the final figures:

1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same methodology and medium

Where could I find a technical description of that method?


2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency

Is that one of the load bearing flows or a non load bearing parallel flow that has successfully finished the TCP handshake?


3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"

I wonder whether reporting something like a 95 or 99% quantiles (so either 1& and 99%, or 5% and 95%) in addition to min and max and interquartile mean would be possible? And since you use the 25 and 75% values already, maybe these as well?

Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing more awareness to this issue.

For sure, so far many discussions about debugging/reducing bufferbloat started with people wanting to use the ubiquitious speedtest.nat nodes (where finding a close by one typically is easy/possible); and now this will actually work (assuming they use Android or iOS clients).

Question: will the apps for the other OSs as well as the CLI and the web version also be changed to include these numbers in the foreseeable future?


Kind Regards
Sebastian




Cheers,
Brennen Smith

VP Technology

(206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com<mailto:brennen@ookla.com>
linkedin.com/in/brennensmith<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/linkedin.com/in/brennensmith__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQ34tQA8k$>


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com<mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list, this was why I started it): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQ2nOLusM$>

I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about their calculations in the coming weeks.

I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what number do you pick?

And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.



On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io<mailto:nathan@nathan.io>> wrote:
Here's a test I did today: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQCvQ4gHo$>

[cid:image002.jpg@01D86A99.40AD2820]


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com<mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> wrote:
Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
measures latency under load.

I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
details here:


https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQtzzxpG8$>

IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
folk of this new app, first.

--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQK32Qzo4$>
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>


--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQK32Qzo4$>
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC


This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the original message and any copies.
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>

_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 13852 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: image001.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 188465 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: image002.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 82379 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Brennen Smith]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 8370 bytes --]

Don’t worry - result pages are in progress 👍

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 06:26 Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
wrote:

> Brennan – It’d also be nice to be able to visit
> https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5118600624 and expand/see the working
> latency numbers that Luis has below in his results image. 😊
>
>
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> *From: *Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of
> "Luis A. Cornejo" <luis.a.cornejo@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:43
> *To: *"Möller, Sebastian" <SMoeller@dpz.eu>
> *Cc: *"starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
> Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under
> load
>
>
>
> Square dishy. North of Houston, speeds have been subpar recently compared
> to initial setup in late March (100+/10+). My cell is probably saturated
> considering my latitude, bird density, and possibly base station.
>
>
>
> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5118600624
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5118600624__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQYmOWd0Q$>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 2:09 PM Möller, Sebastian <SMoeller@dpz.eu> wrote:
>
> Hi Brennan,
>
>
>
> really cool stuff!
>
>
>
>
> On May 13, 2022, at 01:35, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Here's some details about the final figures:
>
> 1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same
> methodology and medium
>
>
>
> Where could I find a technical description of that method?
>
>
>
> 2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency
>
>
>
> Is that one of the load bearing flows or a non load bearing parallel flow
> that has successfully finished the TCP handshake?
>
>
>
> 3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"
>
>
>
> I wonder whether reporting something like a 95 or 99% quantiles (so either
> 1& and 99%, or 5% and 95%) in addition to min and max and interquartile
> mean would be possible? And since you use the 25 and 75% values already,
> maybe these as well?
>
>
>
> Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing
> more awareness to this issue.
>
>
>
> For sure, so far many discussions about debugging/reducing bufferbloat
> started with people wanting to use the ubiquitious speedtest.nat nodes
> (where finding a close by one typically is easy/possible); and now this
> will actually work (assuming they use Android or iOS clients).
>
>
>
> Question: will the apps for the other OSs as well as the CLI and the web
> version also be changed to include these numbers in the foreseeable future?
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brennen Smith
>
>
> VP Technology
>
> (206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
> linkedin.com/in/brennensmith
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/linkedin.com/in/brennensmith__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQ34tQA8k$>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right.
> :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I
> measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list,
> this was why I started it):
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQ2nOLusM$>
>
> I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the
> 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about
> their calculations in the coming weeks.
>
> I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals
> than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what
> number do you pick?
>
> And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
> Here's a test I did today:
> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQCvQ4gHo$>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
> measures latency under load.
>
> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
> details here:
>
>
> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQtzzxpG8$>
>
> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
> folk of this new app, first.
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQK32Qzo4$>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>
>
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQK32Qzo4$>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
>
> This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff
> Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or
> otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for
> the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy,
> distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email
> and delete the original message and any copies.
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>
>
> --

Brennen Smith VP Technology

(206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com

linkedin.com/in/brennensmith <https://www.linkedin.com/in/brennensmith/>

-- 

This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff 
Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or 
otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for 
the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, 
distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you 
have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email 
and delete the original message and any copies.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 15124 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: image001.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 188465 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: image002.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 82379 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Bjørn Ivar Teigen]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9169 bytes --]

Hi Brennen,

Thanks for being so forward with measurement details!
Do you know how the Ookla test computes jitter? Is it the regular average
of inter-packet delay variation?


On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 15:30, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com> wrote:

> Don’t worry - result pages are in progress 👍
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 06:26 Livingood, Jason <
> Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:
>
>> Brennan – It’d also be nice to be able to visit
>> https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5118600624 and expand/see the working
>> latency numbers that Luis has below in his results image. 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of
>> "Luis A. Cornejo" <luis.a.cornejo@gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 11:43
>> *To: *"Möller, Sebastian" <SMoeller@dpz.eu>
>> *Cc: *"starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
>> Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency
>> under load
>>
>>
>>
>> Square dishy. North of Houston, speeds have been subpar recently compared
>> to initial setup in late March (100+/10+). My cell is probably saturated
>> considering my latitude, bird density, and possibly base station.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5118600624
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5118600624__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQYmOWd0Q$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 2:09 PM Möller, Sebastian <SMoeller@dpz.eu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Brennan,
>>
>>
>>
>> really cool stuff!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 13, 2022, at 01:35, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Here's some details about the final figures:
>>
>> 1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same
>> methodology and medium
>>
>>
>>
>> Where could I find a technical description of that method?
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that one of the load bearing flows or a non load bearing parallel flow
>> that has successfully finished the TCP handshake?
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"
>>
>>
>>
>> I wonder whether reporting something like a 95 or 99% quantiles (so
>> either 1& and 99%, or 5% and 95%) in addition to min and max and
>> interquartile mean would be possible? And since you use the 25 and 75%
>> values already, maybe these as well?
>>
>>
>>
>> Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing
>> more awareness to this issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> For sure, so far many discussions about debugging/reducing bufferbloat
>> started with people wanting to use the ubiquitious speedtest.nat nodes
>> (where finding a close by one typically is easy/possible); and now this
>> will actually work (assuming they use Android or iOS clients).
>>
>>
>>
>> Question: will the apps for the other OSs as well as the CLI and the web
>> version also be changed to include these numbers in the foreseeable future?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Brennen Smith
>>
>>
>> VP Technology
>>
>> (206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
>> linkedin.com/in/brennensmith
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/linkedin.com/in/brennensmith__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQ34tQA8k$>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about
>> right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I
>> measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list,
>> this was why I started it):
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQ2nOLusM$>
>>
>> I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the
>> 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about
>> their calculations in the coming weeks.
>>
>> I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals
>> than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what
>> number do you pick?
>>
>> And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
>> Here's a test I did today:
>> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQCvQ4gHo$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
>> measures latency under load.
>>
>> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
>> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
>> details here:
>>
>>
>> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQtzzxpG8$>
>>
>> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
>> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
>> folk of this new app, first.
>>
>> --
>> FQ World Domination pending:
>> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQK32Qzo4$>
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>
>>
>>
>> --
>> FQ World Domination pending:
>> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQK32Qzo4$>
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>
>>
>> This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff
>> Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or
>> otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for
>> the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy,
>> distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you
>> have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email
>> and delete the original message and any copies.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!ClDU9i5pldSBSrF1P2XIBsAEW10bCIDyoWP37dbqvXLqw_6ldzK4fq4pP1OyFSQoStkfmeGLAqrLqS6OEDgsDTJQt5PBt6o$>
>>
>> --
>
> Brennen Smith VP Technology
>
> (206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
>
> linkedin.com/in/brennensmith <https://www.linkedin.com/in/brennensmith/>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff
> Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or
> otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for
> the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy,
> distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email
> and delete the original message and any copies.
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>


-- 
Bjørn Ivar Teigen
Head of Research
+47 47335952 | bjorn@domos.no <name@domos.no> | www.domos.no

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 17639 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: image001.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 188465 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: image002.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 82379 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Nitinder Mohan]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3886 bytes --]

Hi Brennen,

Super cool that Ookla supports this now. Gives a more realistic picture of the end-to-end connection :)

A quick question on the methodology. Do you report the RTTs from the same “warmed-up” TCP connection which is being used for download/upload or do you issue parallel ICMP/TCP pings alongside the download/upload TCP connection to report these latencies?

Thanks and Regards

Nitinder Mohan
Technical University Munich (TUM)
https://www.nitindermohan.com/

From: Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
Reply: Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
Date: 13. May 2022 at 01:49:52
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject:  Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load  

Hey all,

Here's some details about the final figures:

1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same methodology and medium
2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency 
3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"

Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing more awareness to this issue. 

Cheers,

Brennen Smith
VP Technology

(206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
linkedin.com/in/brennensmith


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list, this was why I started it): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit

I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about their calculations in the coming weeks.  

I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what number do you pick?

And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.



On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
Here's a test I did today: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305  




On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
measures latency under load.

I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
details here:


https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency

IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
folk of this new app, first.

--  
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


--  
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC  


This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the original message and any copies.
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

[-- Attachment #2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 9007 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.2: IMG_3074.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 223771 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Livingood, Jason]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5489 bytes --]

Hi Brennen – on #3, do you mean that (if we look for example at https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305) that 419ms is the mean/average? And when we see a result page like https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305 how do we expand/see detailed results that have low & high*? And is high max or p99/p98/p95?

And will this be added to the MacOS client soon?

Thanks for Ookla doing this BTW!

Jason

* If that is not possible in the current version, please suggest it as a feature request for your team’s next code sprint.

From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
Date: Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 19:49
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

Hey all,

Here's some details about the final figures:

1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same methodology and medium
2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency
3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"

Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing more awareness to this issue.

Cheers,


Brennen Smith VP Technology

[https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/onhLDOwMGfTVK4GAZ-5haEEK8Hm39mjhaGZc4T5WJxEvwBxKDf_EbeZ0WIzgYyTX7nVox3DsaX2IGqqB0v4ZorW0sqaZncFCeA1BTfa6ar9K9OszvVS32hgEbiJ6IlWkTFJR7Wdk]

(206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com<mailto:brennen@ookla.com>

linkedin.com/in/brennensmith<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/brennensmith/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xuF9wyQww$>


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com<mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list, this was why I started it): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xvx8fTimg$>

I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about their calculations in the coming weeks.

I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what number do you pick?

And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.



On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io<mailto:nathan@nathan.io>> wrote:
Here's a test I did today: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsaVBosvg$>

[cid:image001.jpg@01D866AE.6958A770]


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com<mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> wrote:
Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
measures latency under load.

I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
details here:


https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsNFRmS5g$>

IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
folk of this new app, first.

--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsJqnQMIQ$>
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xvjDOZ01g$>


--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsJqnQMIQ$>
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

________________________________

This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the original message and any copies.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 12379 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: image001.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 223772 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Dave Taht]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7616 bytes --]

"Was not the miracle of the juniper berries enough?" - Monty Python, Life
of brian  -

I've had a whole day of warm mellow glow (and I did a little SEO on
slashdot, reddit and elsewhere) and have a few comments here and there
also.

I love the symbols for idle, up and down, and especially, jitter, and like
that the colors of those match between the references to them. Is there a
unicode equivalent for these? creating a unified symbolic language for
these concepts would be great.

on the other hand, indicating that the latency numbers are meaningful in
some respect, rather than using white for them, might be useful. +30m sover
baseline = green, +60ms over baseline = yellow +150ms = red, and numbers
like 400+ms should turn the entire application into a mutant morphed dali
painting and emit a raspberry sound. This color scheme is similar to
http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=1 - being an
extremist, I felt that "red" at 1s was kind of late, especially because the
test didn't run long enough to find delays much past 4s (which certainly
exist). 150ms is at the outer limit for quality voip.

semantically, I love the word "responsiveness", and would like to be using
that in a vague sense as here. Elsewhere, as part of the rpm concept it's
getting conflated....

In the explanation of results there is some language regarding "ping" that
I would soften and explain that if you are getting high latency and have no
packet loss, that's probably the root of the problem,andr if you are
getting some packet loss but low latency, that it's good.

On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 6:47 AM Livingood, Jason <
Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:

> Hi Brennen – on #3, do you mean that (if we look for example at
> https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305) that 419ms is the
> mean/average? And when we see a result page like
> https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305 how do we expand/see
> detailed results that have low & high*? And is high max or p99/p98/p95?
>
>
>
> And will this be added to the MacOS client soon?
>
>
>
> Thanks for Ookla doing this BTW!
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> * If that is not possible in the current version, please suggest it as a
> feature request for your team’s next code sprint.
>
>
I have personally managed to avoid the concept of sprinting in favor of a
long, consistent slog. Judging from brennen's first (excellent) post here,
I am not sure if they have adopted agile.

https://www.ookla.com/articles/maximized-speed-non-gigabit-internet-connection

>
>
> *From: *Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of
> Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 19:49
> *To: *Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under
> load
>
>
>
> Hey all,
>
>
>
> Here's some details about the final figures:
>
>
>
> 1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same
> methodology and medium
>
> 2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency
>
> 3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"
>
>
>
> Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing
> more awareness to this issue.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Brennen Smith VP Technology
>
> (206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
>
> linkedin.com/in/brennensmith
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/brennensmith/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xuF9wyQww$>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right.
> :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I
> measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list,
> this was why I started it):
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xvx8fTimg$>
>
>
>
> I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the
> 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about
> their calculations in the coming weeks.
>
>
>
> I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals
> than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what
> number do you pick?
>
>
>
> And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
>
> Here's a test I did today:
> https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsaVBosvg$>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
> measures latency under load.
>
> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
> details here:
>
>
> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsNFRmS5g$>
>
> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
> folk of this new app, first.
>
> --
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsJqnQMIQ$>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xvjDOZ01g$>
>
>
>
> --
>
> FQ World Domination pending:
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!FTiAGqK3qwfRgfDXIJcteOnbZN5LvTGXxBYrrr6_XAiTffCA3CQ65eFFlXap323hKFhA0NntTASs-xsJqnQMIQ$>
>
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff
> Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or
> otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for
> the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy,
> distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you
> have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email
> and delete the original message and any copies.
>


-- 
FQ World Domination pending:
https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 14981 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: image001.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 223772 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Sebastian Moeller]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7419 bytes --]

Hi Dave,


> On May 13, 2022, at 16:15, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> "Was not the miracle of the juniper berries enough?" - Monty Python, Life of brian  -
> 
> I've had a whole day of warm mellow glow (and I did a little SEO on slashdot, reddit and elsewhere) and have a few comments here and there also. 
> 
> I love the symbols for idle, up and down, and especially, jitter,

	Nitpick, the perfect sine wave would have zero jitter ;)



> and like that the colors of those match between the references to them. Is there a unicode equivalent for these? creating a unified symbolic language for these concepts would be great.
> 
> on the other hand, indicating that the latency numbers are meaningful in some respect, rather than using white for them, might be useful. +30m sover baseline = green, +60ms over baseline = yellow +150ms = red, and numbers like 400+ms should turn the entire application into a mutant morphed dali painting and emit a raspberry sound. This color scheme is similar to http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=1 - being an extremist, I felt that "red" at 1s was kind of late, especially because the test didn't run long enough to find delays much past 4s (which certainly exist). 150ms is at the outer limit for quality voip.

	IIRC, according to the ITU these 150ms are one-way mouth-to-ear delay, which would translate into an RTT of up to 300ms... That said, I am not sure that acceptable standards today are the same as when this number was deduced....
	Side note, the national regulator in Germany finally published its first recommendation on the minimum service guarantee people living in Germany have a right to, IIRC >= 10/1.3 Mbps and RTT <= 150ms (these values are probably always in reference the the regulator's official speedtest platform breitbandmessung.de). This is probably based on the same ITU numbers, the only good it does essentially is moving GEO satellites out of the ring of admissible access technologies of last resort, but LEO clearly can live comfortably within that generous 150ms limit...


> semantically, I love the word "responsiveness", and would like to be using that in a vague sense as here. Elsewhere, as part of the rpm concept it's getting conflated.... 
> 
> In the explanation of results there is some language regarding "ping" that I would soften and explain that if you are getting high latency and have no packet loss, that's probably the root of the problem,andr if you are getting some packet loss but low latency, that it's good.
> 
> On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 6:47 AM Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:
> Hi Brennen – on #3, do you mean that (if we look for example at https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305) that 419ms is the mean/average? And when we see a result page like https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305 how do we expand/see detailed results that have low & high*? And is high max or p99/p98/p95?
> 
>  
> 
> And will this be added to the MacOS client soon?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks for Ookla doing this BTW!
> 
> Jason
> 
>  
> 
> * If that is not possible in the current version, please suggest it as a feature request for your team’s next code sprint.
> 
> 
> I have personally managed to avoid the concept of sprinting in favor of a long, consistent slog. Judging from brennen's first (excellent) post here, I am not sure if they have adopted agile. 
> 
> https://www.ookla.com/articles/maximized-speed-non-gigabit-internet-connection
>  
> 
> From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
> Date: Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 19:49
> To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load
> 
>  
> 
> Hey all,
> 
>  
> 
> Here's some details about the final figures:
> 
>  
> 
> 1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same methodology and medium
> 
> 2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency 
> 
> 3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"
> 
>  
> 
> Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing more awareness to this issue. 
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
> Brennen Smith VP Technology 
> 
> (206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
> linkedin.com/in/brennensmith
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list, this was why I started it): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit
> 
>  
> 
> I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about their calculations in the coming weeks.
> 
>  
> 
> I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what number do you pick?
> 
>  
> 
> And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
> 
> Here's a test I did today: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
> measures latency under load.
> 
> I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
> benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
> details here:
> 
> 
> https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
> 
> IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
> in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
> folk of this new app, first.
> 
> -- 
> FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> 
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the original message and any copies.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC 
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


[-- Attachment #2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 10282 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.2: image001.jpeg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 82378 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Livingood, Jason]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9249 bytes --]



From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
Date: Friday, May 13, 2022 at 10:50
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: "Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>, "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>, Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

Hi Dave,



On May 13, 2022, at 16:15, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com<mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> wrote:

"Was not the miracle of the juniper berries enough?" - Monty Python, Life of brian  -

I've had a whole day of warm mellow glow (and I did a little SEO on slashdot, reddit and elsewhere) and have a few comments here and there also.

I love the symbols for idle, up and down, and especially, jitter,

Nitpick, the perfect sine wave would have zero jitter ;)




and like that the colors of those match between the references to them. Is there a unicode equivalent for these? creating a unified symbolic language for these concepts would be great.

on the other hand, indicating that the latency numbers are meaningful in some respect, rather than using white for them, might be useful. +30m sover baseline = green, +60ms over baseline = yellow +150ms = red, and numbers like 400+ms should turn the entire application into a mutant morphed dali painting and emit a raspberry sound. This color scheme is similar to http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=1__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPRE876pUge$> - being an extremist, I felt that "red" at 1s was kind of late, especially because the test didn't run long enough to find delays much past 4s (which certainly exist). 150ms is at the outer limit for quality voip.

IIRC, according to the ITU these 150ms are one-way mouth-to-ear delay, which would translate into an RTT of up to 300ms... That said, I am not sure that acceptable standards today are the same as when this number was deduced....
Side note, the national regulator in Germany finally published its first recommendation on the minimum service guarantee people living in Germany have a right to, IIRC >= 10/1.3 Mbps and RTT <= 150ms (these values are probably always in reference the the regulator's official speedtest platform breitbandmessung.de<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/breitbandmessung.de__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPRE3diXt2f$>). This is probably based on the same ITU numbers, the only good it does essentially is moving GEO satellites out of the ring of admissible access technologies of last resort, but LEO clearly can live comfortably within that generous 150ms limit...


semantically, I love the word "responsiveness", and would like to be using that in a vague sense as here. Elsewhere, as part of the rpm concept it's getting conflated....

In the explanation of results there is some language regarding "ping" that I would soften and explain that if you are getting high latency and have no packet loss, that's probably the root of the problem,andr if you are getting some packet loss but low latency, that it's good.

On Fri, May 13, 2022 at 6:47 AM Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com<mailto:Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>> wrote:
Hi Brennen – on #3, do you mean that (if we look for example at https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPRE0H7K-fR$>) that 419ms is the mean/average? And when we see a result page like https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305 how<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.speedtest.net/result/i/5112435305**Ahow__;wqA!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPRE2nK1chv$> do we expand/see detailed results that have low & high*? And is high max or p99/p98/p95?



And will this be added to the MacOS client soon?



Thanks for Ookla doing this BTW!

Jason



* If that is not possible in the current version, please suggest it as a feature request for your team’s next code sprint.


I have personally managed to avoid the concept of sprinting in favor of a long, consistent slog. Judging from brennen's first (excellent) post here, I am not sure if they have adopted agile.

https://www.ookla.com/articles/maximized-speed-non-gigabit-internet-connection<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ookla.com/articles/maximized-speed-non-gigabit-internet-connection__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPRE5_CUdq6$>


From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of Brennen Smith <brennen@ookla.com>
Date: Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 19:49
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load



Hey all,



Here's some details about the final figures:



1. Loaded latency is simply an extension of the latency stage - same methodology and medium

2. We use a "warmed up" TCP connection for latency

3. We use the interquartile mean for the "displayed value"



Awesome seeing those numbers in the wild and looking forward to bringing more awareness to this issue.



Cheers,



Brennen Smith VP Technology

(206) 739-0807 | brennen@ookla.com
linkedin.com/in/brennensmith




On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:18 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than what I measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on this list, this was why I started it): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPRE9eEdjYk$>



I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more about their calculations in the coming weeks.



I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer intervals than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme every 15s, what number do you pick?



And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.







On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:

Here's a test I did today: https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305



[cid:image001.jpg@01D86B68.13E11AC0]





On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also continuously
measures latency under load.

I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot? More
details here:


https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPRE5yWysjn$>

IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet capture
in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
folk of this new app, first.

--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPREzG1gv_N$>



--

FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/

Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC





This email, its contents and attachments contain information from Ziff Davis, Inc. and/or its affiliates which may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. The information is intended to be for the addressee(s) only. If you are not an addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the original message and any copies.



--
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!BL0WciQlv8iyTBeG4H22uqWAAom4L60HHLkAcogzp3dywlgXp1Xne8ZwDjY9X0aDhPyPWo2IP9OgDyPREzG1gv_N$>


[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 14022 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: image001.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 82379 bytes --]

Re: [Starlink] ookla's latest speedtest app does latency under load

[Ricky Mok]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2465 bytes --]

I noticed Ookla changed the measurement method in the web version as well.

They measured download throughput using two different servers instead of 
one.

Ricky

On 5/12/2022 4:18 PM, Dave Taht wrote:
> Yea. peak 2500ms latency on download, 600ms on upload, that's about 
> right. :/ The upload figure appears to be a bit lower (better) than 
> what I measured 1 year ago, here (for the 30 or so new subscribers on 
> this list, this was why I started it): 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1puRjUVxJ6cCv-rgQ_zn-jWZU9ae0jZbFATLf4PQKblM/edit
>
> I don't know if ookla are throwing out arp related stuff, or using the 
> 99th percentile to calculate the final figure. I hope to learn more 
> about their calculations in the coming weeks.
>
> I do keep hoping we can get more updated flent data over longer 
> intervals than 20s. With starlink changing their allocation scheme 
> every 15s, what number do you pick?
>
> And like I said, some packet caps of this app would be good, too.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:07 PM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
>
>     Here's a test I did today:
>     https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/i/5112435305
>
>
>
>     On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 4:04 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>         Ookla has just put out an ios and android app that also
>         continuously
>         measures latency under load.
>
>         I'm interested in calibrating the results of that vs a vs flent
>         benchmarks verses starlink. Can someone here give this a shot?
>         More
>         details here:
>
>
>         https://www.ookla.com/articles/introducing-loaded-latency
>
>         IDEALLY, this would be over wifi -> starlink , with a packet
>         capture
>         in the middle. But I'd settle for a few test results from starlink
>         folk of this new app, first.
>
>         -- 
>         FQ World Domination pending:
>         https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
>         Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>         _______________________________________________
>         Starlink mailing list
>         Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>         https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
>
>
> -- 
> FQ World Domination pending: 
> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

[-- Attachment #2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 6765 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.2: IMG_3074.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 223771 bytes --]