From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x52f.google.com (mail-pg1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 207623CB39 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2024 10:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5dbcfa0eb5dso2041085a12.3 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 07:38:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706888285; x=1707493085; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=8gd+MZTODJ6NEfcF4Jxk2zMLpgfRIWiFt6lMe9/DtuA=; b=Ix9/oIS0/iliZ+pwky9AiQDc9u5GHFggG4YlX5ZwIDfkoQmuDXpyGWqhaFAral8dTN /vPVeUYSc2Dmjt+ymJIOvwAnCrkBAvCl4ghItgmV8cD6W3+0p8tSj3k6B8BE1/o8fJod MrDP/lpn+oGZga4cEdt3tKzMAbDOf8G9CHQn7Bnh1v8CNSL+zOnQ4ijgPQZWPpkCQ1Xs zXgvHs4VVQlUW0SowrYC3orCJmbJxRzgAnPLPMbthepd9LaqS/e+xGQJxYlZ/tD17cSY zjjihY5vpGIVggsMFUfKK9PP69s1NOqqZVEc+Yu2IAmd8ORyOiGzemkzIjwwkmNDgMDu f6wg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706888285; x=1707493085; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=8gd+MZTODJ6NEfcF4Jxk2zMLpgfRIWiFt6lMe9/DtuA=; b=d9TI39+nqzzTW3lQsJ0P7isGit9FhwjBJYAv2puQyUYLWAS+fFsa2FKOSftD71bqq3 wMxBsbYmivI2/FhG/AUpskTLKDN7E3sEFGkqC+QaegcNZdTB5Sm/CbxKpzpiiXKrsLMF 6gG6P0LaXzVhdKFn4usJhI6Ck8yawdwqh574GB4ORYnYXCRSKUBkJW3hh7hpTv2ZGHBz gajIV6Y4I4Uaka5qpmntTlivHGJnt/C+3VNUBFY73Y9hBW69k6eh3ojLN9Bv1dpkU02g oFf6/cSfo4YdlJL7O7HAiBfk2MlO57SxtRPpE3l7Yno0yXZKlG/ojUk8Vx6pn0vPTY8e OTwQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxr5IuqKtbrXR6ZcO1qs9sT0PAHrgyc8GpAcWAwKz22LeZmO2kp g/M/dL5EPami6o/JdSQUQlNgJw0RgnHnt6hCz+vbjsyBfe1h4G0zM7Plrof4oFfvJIfNCJ7GbuW GBHBm+sO/WrxQZmpXnFRvfvb5+jM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG8Go7qr33x0pp2bRJZlXFRzHxjeHlhmst8OE6Es7Y2zLjyohFcgE9xxb0RoQN3v7bFx2HDrjFS7LocgMuBbPM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:26e9:b0:6db:e6b9:4d21 with SMTP id p41-20020a056a0026e900b006dbe6b94d21mr8434671pfw.4.1706888283470; Fri, 02 Feb 2024 07:38:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Sevilla Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2024 10:37:51 -0500 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cec08b061067e53b" Subject: Re: [Starlink] 42 petabytes/day and ... X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 15:38:06 -0000 --000000000000cec08b061067e53b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah I forget exactly where/when, but approx. five years ago there was a LEO workshop at some big academic networking conference (maybe sigcomm?) and I noticed that almost all the papers used NY-London latency as their primary evaluation metric. One of the papers even proposed some wacky multi hop system using commercial planes that were likely to be reliably scheduled on the route. Confused the hell out of me (reading these papers with an eye towards rural access) until my colleague pointed out the likely funders of the research and their priorities =F0=9F=98=82 On Thu, Feb 1, 2024, 22:07 Dave Taht via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D39200323 > > There were two things that fell out of reading that article for me. > > "each laser is grossly underused on average, at 0.432% of its maximum > capacity." > > + > > "Brashears also said Starlink=E2=80=99s laser system was able to connect = two > satellites over 5,400 kilometers (3,355 miles) apart. The link was so > long =E2=80=9Cit cut down through the atmosphere, all the way down to 30 > kilometers above the surface of the Earth,=E2=80=9D he said, before the > connection broke." > > So there IS a way to achieve previously unheard of lower latencies (at > a cost in bitrate) across starlink across their network. Two hops to > go 10,000km. > > I loved mark handley's original animation of how the ISL's were > supposed to work, but given the orbits here, I kind of wish it was > easy to plug the assumptions in and figure out what the NY -> tokoyo > run would take in terms of hops and estimated switching overhead, > given this distance record. > > How much data and what kind of data would benefit from that latency > reduction is a matter of speculation. "Buy! Sell!" between tokoyo and > london arbitrage was one of my first speculations many years ago. > > -- > 40 years of net history, a couple songs: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5E > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --000000000000cec08b061067e53b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah I forget exactly where/when, but approx. five y= ears ago there was a LEO workshop at some big academic networking conferenc= e (maybe sigcomm?) and I noticed that almost all the papers used NY-London = latency as their primary evaluation metric. One of the papers even proposed= some wacky multi hop system using commercial planes that were likely to be= reliably scheduled on the route. Confused the hell out of me (reading thes= e papers with an eye towards rural access) until my colleague pointed out t= he likely funders of the research and their priorities =F0=9F=98=82

On Thu, Feb 1, 2024, 22:07 Dave Taht via Starlink &l= t;starlink@lists.bufferbl= oat.net> wrote:
from here: <= a href=3D"https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D39200323" rel=3D"noreferre= r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D3920= 0323

There were two things that fell out of reading that article for me.

"each laser is grossly underused on average, at 0.432% of its maximum = capacity."

+

"Brashears also said Starlink=E2=80=99s laser system was able to conne= ct two
satellites over 5,400 kilometers (3,355 miles) apart. The link was so
long =E2=80=9Cit cut down through the atmosphere, all the way down to 30 kilometers above the surface of the Earth,=E2=80=9D he said, before the
connection broke."

So there IS a way to achieve previously unheard of lower latencies (at
a cost in bitrate) across starlink across their network. Two hops to
go 10,000km.

I loved mark handley's original animation of how the ISL's were
supposed to work, but given the orbits=C2=A0 here, I kind of wish it was easy to plug the assumptions in and figure out what the NY -> tokoyo
run would take in terms of hops and estimated switching overhead,
given this distance record.

How much data and what kind of data would benefit from that latency
reduction is a matter of speculation. "Buy! Sell!" between tokoyo= and
london arbitrage was one of my first speculations many years ago.

--
40 years of net history, a couple songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5= E
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
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