From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-vs1-xe31.google.com (mail-vs1-xe31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9B1A3B29E for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 16:58:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe31.google.com with SMTP id t22so19045105vsa.4 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:58:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nathan.io; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mPKZcOI0q8FOQQ3TItonnMM+yEETCFeWCmSFhEELcW8=; b=T6gYMQMjrKK8m5uc5QRcP2PIhdsqK+G1btSmcdY11o6Kvd6cB5A/5q8I1pf5jgIk4H cSzrVxGsDw7oYlTSKLTXRRxOwH/9kkWQSVY40xO7c/jVM4NjrHbBD5rcFi6pxIAxhyTE qg180MmUBc+TTx6aeW/R+1kMej6v4sKPo69Sz+CgzOKin90dG4Gd5udxn1p+3nk4lHHO +vgRyOCgag/XeXhql7s32pM8zajYWy0oTjZ90hfCws/YM8zz9bc2ekwktFdjotAT+saP j6QNuhf8shr+WpUYozVuNJYI5rHlW5IggOnh9fZ7F7iS0Ip0dFsQ9r3aait8ztQyXGni McmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mPKZcOI0q8FOQQ3TItonnMM+yEETCFeWCmSFhEELcW8=; b=uFRa3zQ9S0Gw7coP/YIgRNwt2vhP9ghWbC/qVtooj2hd5bFdHINzIUadt55uuZ8ieC RueNyQQbHZW/97NeyXcKQhnhA3ADZlaDuotUSbLtw8f91u40Hl/Nv5j+az5uoGawR0O8 vUJNBkodDooHB38Rs8D5bLUSbC8M5StkizsAi5JNdpA6KLfbyD7nkugZH/UBlRCUxBya UdRQvBlL2KX52HIkYF9GjwSUKYS7EYz/fYCLlAX5V2O1eQJVCCLYT7VarF63avN/DW+X I8IIcYh0M30PTp8zO4onXci9sm6oFvLSuyxIsg9S+403zQADVYQwJ+1knkh764966fEM vKNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530mmAW1rVIahO9M6G7GFfP5Y9zLNq0+NEwMf680ZVkqpS0cW0TV 0bmTmI0v2TcFGcBMJh6ttFCkdRV0m4Fd8Qgv/nIJTkRy4qo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzPFBxVlimgWXJh/vQzcKapnKw4uvvdiZJ9pA90bvxBIwDTXrZFXF3rzNwVBTodOszI4Xfd2haHswF7O/2w+4Q= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:ec6:b0:31b:4882:8685 with SMTP id m6-20020a0561020ec600b0031b48828685mr9241648vst.70.1645480722173; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:58:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1p492142-q944-r494-6s6r-p6q37s57qnq4@ynat.uz> <1F1EB112F8CB446FAB4BF308A76955FA@SRA6> <0ac195f5-3668-4c96-8dec-8a2d59a0bd52@Spark> <866405-s043-n12n-6pqs-46o38r189218@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: From: Nathan Owens Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:58:31 -0800 Message-ID: To: David Lang Cc: Dick Roy , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ee268f05d88e5520" Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 21:58:43 -0000 --000000000000ee268f05d88e5520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Per the debug data, the dish has GPS, a Gyroscope, a Magnetometer, and an Accelerometer. On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 1:32 PM David Lang wrote: > On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Dick Roy wrote: > > > What is involved in "setting the service address"?? > > fairly simple, enter it in the website or contact support > > > Do dishy's have IMUs (aka some means for determining attitude w.r.t. the > > local gravitational vector and true or magnetic north) or GPS modules (or > > both)??? > > we know the first version has a gps module in it, and you really need a > phone to > set it up (and the phone app has access to your location) > > David Lang > > > I am somewhat skeptical that the system would be able to locate a UT just > > based on zero tilt transmissions from the UT. I am guessing something a > bit > > more complex is transpiring, like some rudimentary form of SDMA (aka > > spatio-temporal resource allocation). > > > > RR > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Lang [mailto:david@lang.hm] > > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 12:53 PM > > To: Mike Puchol > > Cc: 'David Lang'; 'Larry Press'; dickroy@alum.mit.edu; > > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming > > > > that's what happened when I tried to use it ~60 miles away, but when I > tried > > to > > use it ~25 miles away I got the attached error very quickly. > > > > I've used it at a couple locations 5-10 miles away without a problem > > > > I asked starlink support about roaming and it's currently not supported, > you > > can > > change the registered location, and if a slot is available, they'll > approve > > it > > and guarantee service (view of the sky permitting). But when you do that > you > > > > give up the slot at your home location and are not guaranteed to be able > to > > move > > it back. > > > > They told me that I could try it, and it may work, may be degraded a > bit, or > > may > > not work at all. They do plan to add roaming capabilities in the future > (my > > guess is that the laser satellites will enable a lot more flexibility) > > > > David Lang > > > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Mike Puchol wrote: > > > >> From what I have observed, there is a new "roaming" flag in terminal > > properties that determines roaming capability. Mine is false, and I could > > not get service if I set the service address too far. > >> > >> The way the UT does it is, after startup, it moves to zero tilt, then > > searches and registers with any passing satellite, likely using a > low-rate, > > omnidireccional beacon. The backend then informs the terminal if it is > out > > of its service address, and if so, it will just sit there doing nothing > > (although it does periodically send stuff). > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Mike > >> On Feb 21, 2022, 23:31 +0300, Dick Roy , wrote: > >>> What does your contract say about the "where" you can expect service > from > >>> your dishy? I suspect the system is capable of tracking all users at > all > >>> times they're in coverage which is how they could/would enforce a > >>> contractual limitation/constraint. > >>> > >>> RR > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On > Behalf > > Of > >>> David Lang > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:30 PM > >>> To: Larry Press > >>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming > >>> > >>> tonight I took it to a friends house about 25 miles away and within a > > couple > >>> min > >>> it gave me an error message saying that I wasn't at my assigned > location. > >>> > >>> David Lang > >>> > >>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Larry Press wrote: > >>> > >>>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:22:44 +0000 > >>>> From: Larry Press > >>>> To: David Lang , > >>>> Jonathan Bennett > >>>> Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" > >>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming > >>>> > >>>> David brought his dish to my location -- about fifty miles from his > >>> service loacation and in a different cell and it could not connect. We > > had a > >>> clear view of the entire sky. He speculated that that was because it > was > >>> registered to use a specific ground station that was out of range at my > >>> place. Does that seem reasonable? > >>>> > >>>> Larry Press > >>>> ________________________________ > >>>> From: Starlink on behalf of > > David > >>> Lang > >>>> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 12:29 PM > >>>> To: Jonathan Bennett > >>>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming > >>>> > >>>> I asked starlink about temp service away from my registered location, > > they > >>> said > >>>> I have two options > >>>> > >>>> 1. formally change the service location (if approved, guaranteed to > > work, > >>> but > >>>> you aren't guaranteed to be able to change the service location back) > >>>> > >>>> 2. best effort, set it up and try it. Service may perfect, or may be > > worse > >>> (all > >>>> the way to non-existant) depending on how many other dishes are in use > > in > >>> the > >>>> area. > >>>> > >>>> I've done some limited testing with my dish within about 15 miles of > my > >>>> registered location (in both cases with less than optimal sky views) > and > >>> it's > >>>> worked without a hitch. I plan to do a test further away this weekend > > (but > >>> in a > >>>> less populated area, so I have high hopes) > >>>> > >>>> David Lang > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022, Jonathan Bennett wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It appears that there is now a system in place for Starlink to > > re-connect > >>>>> even if you are outside your official service cell. For those of us > who > >>>>> want to use Starlink on vacations or other trips, this is quite the > >>>>> development. > >>>>> > >>>>> --Jonathan Bennett > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Starlink mailing list > >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>>> > >>> > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink_ > >>> > > > _;!!P7nkOOY!txPxU76SxJ4JvYe2kDjl5OcuAgSIb7mkHWuCMgt3eSH3Tec--6vePH_RCs0NVt6n > >>> 2TE6_9HsG20fOA$ > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Starlink mailing list > >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Starlink mailing list > >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --000000000000ee268f05d88e5520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Per the debug data, the dish has GPS, a Gyroscope, a = Magnetometer, and an Accelerometer.


On M= on, Feb 21, 2022 at 1:32 PM David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Dick Roy wrote:

> What is involved in "setting the service address"??

fairly simple, enter it in the website or contact support

> Do dishy's have IMUs (aka some means for determining attitude w.r.= t. the
> local gravitational vector and true or magnetic north) or GPS modules = (or
> both)???

we know the first version has a gps module in it, and you really need a pho= ne to
set it up (and the phone app has access to your location)

David Lang

> I am somewhat skeptical that the system would be able to locate a UT j= ust
> based on zero tilt transmissions from the UT. I am guessing something = a bit
> more complex is transpiring, like some rudimentary form of SDMA (aka > spatio-temporal resource allocation).
>
> RR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Lang [mailto:david@lang.hm]
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 12:53 PM
> To: Mike Puchol
> Cc: 'David Lang'; 'Larry Press'; dickroy@alum.mit.edu;
> st= arlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>
> that's what happened when I tried to use it ~60 miles away, but wh= en I tried
> to
> use it ~25 miles away I got the attached error very quickly.
>
> I've used it at a couple locations 5-10 miles away without a probl= em
>
> I asked starlink support about roaming and it's currently not supp= orted, you
> can
> change the registered location, and if a slot is available, they'l= l approve
> it
> and guarantee service (view of the sky permitting). But when you do th= at you
>
> give up the slot at your home location and are not guaranteed to be ab= le to
> move
> it back.
>
> They told me that I could try it, and it may work, may be degraded a b= it, or
> may
> not work at all. They do plan to add roaming capabilities in the futur= e (my
> guess is that the laser satellites will enable a lot more flexibility)=
>
> David Lang
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Mike Puchol wrote:
>
>> From what I have observed, there is a new "roaming" flag= in terminal
> properties that determines roaming capability. Mine is false, and I co= uld
> not get service if I set the service address too far.
>>
>> The way the UT does it is, after startup, it moves to zero tilt, t= hen
> searches and registers with any passing satellite, likely using a low-= rate,
> omnidireccional beacon. The backend then informs the terminal if it is= out
> of its service address, and if so, it will just sit there doing nothin= g
> (although it does periodically send stuff).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mike
>> On Feb 21, 2022, 23:31 +0300, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, wrote:
>>> What does your contract say about the "where" you ca= n expect service from
>>> your dishy? I suspect the system is capable of tracking all us= ers at all
>>> times they're in coverage which is how they could/would en= force a
>>> contractual limitation/constraint.
>>>
>>> RR
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net= ] On Behalf
> Of
>>> David Lang
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:30 PM
>>> To: Larry Press
>>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>>>
>>> tonight I took it to a friends house about 25 miles away and w= ithin a
> couple
>>> min
>>> it gave me an error message saying that I wasn't at my ass= igned location.
>>>
>>> David Lang
>>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Larry Press wrote:
>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:22:44 +0000
>>>> From: Larry Press <lpress@csudh.edu>
>>>> To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>,
>>>> Jonathan Bennett <jonathanbennett@hackaday.com>
>>>> Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bu= fferbloat.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>>>>
>>>> David brought his dish to my location -- about fifty miles= from his
>>> service loacation and in a different cell and it could not con= nect. We
> had a
>>> clear view of the entire sky. He speculated that that was beca= use it was
>>> registered to use a specific ground station that was out of ra= nge at my
>>> place. Does that seem reasonable?
>>>>
>>>> Larry Press
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net= > on behalf of
> David
>>> Lang <da= vid@lang.hm>
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 12:29 PM
>>>> To: Jonathan Bennett <jonathanbennett@hackaday.com>
>>>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.ne= t>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>>>>
>>>> I asked starlink about temp service away from my registere= d location,
> they
>>> said
>>>> I have two options
>>>>
>>>> 1. formally change the service location (if approved, guar= anteed to
> work,
>>> but
>>>> you aren't guaranteed to be able to change the service= location back)
>>>>
>>>> 2. best effort, set it up and try it. Service may perfect,= or may be
> worse
>>> (all
>>>> the way to non-existant) depending on how many other dishe= s are in use
> in
>>> the
>>>> area.
>>>>
>>>> I've done some limited testing with my dish within abo= ut 15 miles of my
>>>> registered location (in both cases with less than optimal = sky views) and
>>> it's
>>>> worked without a hitch. I plan to do a test further away t= his weekend
> (but
>>> in a
>>>> less populated area, so I have high hopes)
>>>>
>>>> David Lang
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022, Jonathan Bennett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It appears that there is now a system in place for Sta= rlink to
> re-connect
>>>>> even if you are outside your official service cell. Fo= r those of us who
>>>>> want to use Starlink on vacations or other trips, this= is quite the
>>>>> development.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Jonathan Bennett
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Starlink mailing list
>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>>
>>>
> https://urldefense.= com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink_
>>>
> _;!!P7nkOOY!txPxU76SxJ4JvYe2kDjl5OcuAgSIb7mkHWuCMgt3eSH3Tec--6vePH_RCs= 0NVt6n
>>> 2TE6_9HsG20fOA$
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/s= tarlink
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/s= tarlink
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
--000000000000ee268f05d88e5520--