That latitude is perfect for Starlink, tons of sats overhead. I'll pitch starlink.sx as a better simulator :) [image: Screenshot 2023-03-06 at 1.03.35 PM.png] On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 1:00 PM Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Thank you Ulrich for sharing the material! > > I was finally able to get rough estimate of the test site, pictures > attached. Comparison with your satellite map from the presentation, > with my limited experience, looks like the situation is not so bad? > > Really strange, maybe the only option is the local obstructions. > Alternatively it was just unfortunate routing for the call on our > side, very hard to judge. Now the pivot point is determined by the > call source. > > Best regards, > Sauli > > > On 01/03/2023, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink > wrote: > > On 1/03/2023 3:41 am, Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink wrote: > >> > >> Based on your location in NZ you should be among the best tests in > >> terms of worst possible location in relation to our infra for delays. > > > > Actually, probably we're anything but ideal here. Our Starlink kit is an > > RV subscription one (our campus is too built-up for a fixed one and H&S > > gets in the way of going onto any roof with students). RV subscription > > capacity is managed differently from fixed subscriptions, which is what > > most people have (we see much more variation in goodput and RTT than > > what I've seen fixed users report). > > > > Also, our location here gives us a number of "unfair advantages" in > > terms of Starlink: proximity to multiple gateways (lost of choice in > > terms of sats visible from both UT and GW to route through), > > neighbourhood on a cheap high fibre diet (not much competition for > > capacity from other users in the cell), small extended neighbourhood > > (some of which is already saturated). See my slides of a panel talk I > > gave the other day at APNIC55 under > > > https://conference.apnic.net/55/assets/files/APPS314/starlink-first-impre_1677543480.pdf > . > > > > > > > > So I'm not sure how comparable our situation would be with that of your > > customer. > > > >> Do you mind running POINTR network analysis and see what kind of > >> results you get? We did some tests with mining industry in Australia > >> with sat but it is already few years ago not Starlink. > > > > Australia is topologically further away from Finland than NZ - if you do > > a traceroute, you should see your traffic go via the US, and then > > depending on the cable it takes down to Oceania, it may actually transit > > NZ (Southern Cross cable) before hitting Australia. > > > > I'll see what I can do in terms of POINTR once our industrial action > > here ends (I'm currently nominally on strike, but then again I'd > > probably be on here even if I didn't get paid ;-)). > > > >> Even better if > >> you have two devices, register them then call to yourself so both > >> endpoints go through the Starlink to see if everything or anything > >> works and what type of delays you experience (double trouble!). > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Sauli > >> > >> > >> On 28/02/2023, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink > >> wrote: > >> > I think you may find this difficult to reproduce unless you actually > go > >> > and see your customer. > >> > > >> > Starlink isn't the same as Starlink. How it works depends on: > >> > > >> > * Where your dishy is and where the closest gateway(s) is/are. This > >> > determines the number of options that the system has to route > >> > between you and the gateway. The closer, the more options, > >> > generally, as the number of sats that both you and the gateway can > >> > see decreases, as a rule of thumb, with distance between you and > >> > gateway. > >> > * Where you are also matters. Satellite density is highest at 53 deg > >> > north and 53 deg south. Starlink units between these parallels will > >> > look in the direction of their hemisphere when looking for a > >> > satellite. Units at higher latitudes ... well someone tell me where > >> > they look! > >> > * How many other Starlink users there are (a) in your cell and (b) in > >> > the neighbourhood of your cell. This determines the share of > >> > capacity you'll get off the system. The fewer competing users, the > >> > better. > >> > * What sort of backhaul the gateway is on. I only see IPv4 here in NZ > >> > but some folk are on IPv6, and I guess the backhaul network beyond > >> > Starlink's control also matters in terms of bufferbloat etc. > >> > * Weather > >> > * Obstructions (Starlink can works pretty well with a moderate degree > >> > of obstruction, but obviously, as stated above, the more options the > >> > system has...) > >> > * Available bandwidth (did Starlink get all the frequencies that it > >> > would have wanted at your customer's site or just some?) - that's a > >> > regulatory issue. > >> > > >> > Basically, you could be comparing apples and pears here. > >> > > >> > On 1/03/2023 12:53 am, Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink wrote: > >> >> Thank you for the testing so far! > >> >> > >> >> Special thanks to Nathan for the test call yesterday, looks like > >> >> everything works. I was shocked how good the Starlink performed, I > was > >> >> in disbelief how well it worked since on my side I was also on 4G and > >> >> the performance was spectacular. Not the usual > >> >> 8000km-and-sat-inbetween feeling. > >> >> > >> >> So far we have not been able to reproduce the errors, if the call is > >> >> initiated from US it will route through the local infra. So this > could > >> >> be one issue, if someone wants to make another test call we can route > >> >> it through EU. > >> >> > >> >> Anyone in Canada capable of making a test? Even to just run the > >> >> network analysis. > >> >> > >> >> I will meanwhile have to point the finger at the customer if there > are > >> >> no signs of failure in any of the tests, I hate that. Fixing a juicy > >> >> bug is better than having configuration when things just fail > "without > >> >> reason". > >> >> > >> >> I can also provide additional test tools if someone is interested in > >> >> more bolts and nuts testing. Send me an email with platform > preference > >> >> and I will share the test kit. > >> >> > >> >> Best regards, > >> >> Sauli > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 27/02/2023, starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > Send Starlink mailing list submissions to > >> >> > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> > > >> >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> >> > starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> > > >> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at > >> >> > starlink-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> > > >> >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> >> > than "Re: Contents of Starlink digest..." > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Today's Topics: > >> >> > > >> >> > 1. Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR) (Sauli Kiviranta) > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > > >> >> > Message: 1 > >> >> > Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:58:53 +0200 > >> >> > From: Sauli Kiviranta > >> >> > To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> > Subject: [Starlink] Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR) > >> >> > Message-ID: > >> >> > gEpGV37URRh2UvGLjKV1XEpNPm1bxMu3Q@mail.gmail.com> > >> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >> >> > > >> >> > Dear Starlink users, > >> >> > > >> >> > I have a request for help on debugging a customer issue. We have > >> users > >> >> > in Canada who are using our industrial remote collaboration tool > >> >> > POINTR (www.pointr.com > >> > >> >> >> >) > >> >> and have issues connecting through Starlink > >> >> > (Standard HTTPS). We cannot reproduce their case as we have no > >> >> > Starlink at our disposal. > >> >> > > >> >> > If you would be kind enough to download POINTR (either from the app > >> >> > stores or from our website: https://www.pointr.com/downloads/ > >> > >> >> >> >). > >> >> The > >> >> > app itself follows standard SMS validation loop, if this is an > >> issue I > >> >> > can provide you with virtual number with email validation. > >> >> > > >> >> > Problem 1: Can you connect to the servers? > >> >> > - Once you try to complete registration loop, you should get an > >> >> > error > >> >> > that you are offline indicative that servers cannot be reached > (AWS, > >> >> > Ireland/US/Brazil/Japan). > >> >> > > >> >> > Problem 2: What is the perceived network quality within the app? > >> >> > - Considering the outlined server distribution, if you run the > >> network > >> >> > analysis, can you take a screenshot and share it? (Example > >> >> > attached). > >> >> > > >> >> > Problem 3: What is the call quality between your devices? > >> >> > - If you can run network analysis, can you register another device > >> >> > of > >> >> > yours (same mobile number is ok) and call between your own devices > >> >> > to > >> >> > test how the video streaming goes through and what type of delay > you > >> >> > experience? I will be also available for test calls if you want to > >> >> > establish a call between your location and Finland: +358 40 357 > 3272 > >> >> > (group calls up to 7 users). > >> >> > > >> >> > Additionally any technical feedback on the behavior will be > >> >> > appreciated specially if you experience issues. > >> >> > > >> >> > Best regards, > >> >> > Sauli Kiviranta > >> >> > > >> >> > www.deltacygnilabs.com > >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Downloads: > >> >> > > >> >> > Android: > >> >> > > >> >> > >> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr > >> < > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr> > >> >> > >> < > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr > >> < > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr>> > >> >> > APK: > >> >> > https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android > >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > iOS: > >> >> > > >> >> > >> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903 > >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > UWP: > >> >> > > >> >> > >> > https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41 > >> > >> < > https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41 > > > >> >> > >> >> > >> < > https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41 > >> > >> < > https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41 > >> > >> >> > > >> >> > Windows: > >> >> > https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows > >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- > >> >> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > >> >> > Name: Screenshot 2023-02-27 at 10.42.12.png > >> >> > Type: image/png > >> >> > Size: 146717 bytes > >> >> > Desc: not available > >> >> > URL: > >> >> > > >> >> > >> < > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png > >> > >> < > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png > > > >> >> > >> >> > >> < > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png > >> > >> < > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png > >>> > >> >> > > >> >> > ------------------------------ > >> >> > > >> >> > Subject: Digest Footer > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > Starlink mailing list > >> >> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ------------------------------ > >> >> > > >> >> > End of Starlink Digest, Vol 23, Issue 26 > >> >> > **************************************** > >> >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Starlink mailing list > >> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > >> >> >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > **************************************************************** > >> > Dr. Ulrich Speidel > >> > > >> > School of Computer Science > >> > > >> > Room 303S.594 (City Campus) > >> > > >> > The University of Auckland > >> > u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz > >> > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ > >> > >> > **************************************************************** > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > > > > -- > > **************************************************************** > > Dr. Ulrich Speidel > > > > School of Computer Science > > > > Room 303S.594 (City Campus) > > > > The University of Auckland > > u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz > > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ > > **************************************************************** > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >