From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x530.google.com (mail-pg1-x530.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::530]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 047823CB37 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 08:31:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pg1-x530.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5bd5809f63aso2539654a12.3 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:31:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nathan.io; s=google; t=1699882272; x=1700487072; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rftBgGThT+Fk80zVwpJQFMfTGtsPky8IZfE+pXN8Dt4=; b=nGpsqhNxArTGcfAUCU7JUgzam3ZV60I6SlIQCHZrUBjFa0p7lzZrr3RMGD2HjAMep1 y5FyJP6Dq8x6JeD/FLt1UI+L/LLW5MjZes9KQEg3VV7p0A9K5XsRWHG+yYV8MFU5O08Q T1A/WStyRPhcUE3coTvzbgoFSJZcGDUEU+glxJ+yd+K6zp5X9GVMKX/ff27F8gDrGqJa ftgpwJNevlSAnzms9DDWeprYf9kA2pVZmoAoXHqtMaRk9jvcg0j3jEEAokJCAwR+ckw4 0aAaJe8EbTU4fQoiVcOEQ3ALLgiAR9iTubuoccBP5UdQzxab9EvGtDzoe81656TOyiJM P/DQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699882272; x=1700487072; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=rftBgGThT+Fk80zVwpJQFMfTGtsPky8IZfE+pXN8Dt4=; b=r5XCsWQNPTZjoyr6+MtI3xnbaGDRt0EON/Zq2nOSfh8ZmhmGfnQUrAdQHtxerIrQpB vQ7bHaQtE5Q8Ry4HR5/enoGFyS5DWL0xVS+Qd8R1IfizlurQ3PSYGfJFXXbiabBW3Db4 ZVL9xUaUFqvYbO0hN/Nfi+skTRaY5sIfDpyj5MQ0mCjP5KY6B5N9ss6AnAGTNga6x+C2 oSdTsLByIDFvD83luvtQXQ2qq8aCXOH53bYchLpPsOfspgVcVaF9YTuhOXx2AucytOeW /vF9/y2o+kaorml3Oyp/+ib240oll98JOeDFH1iuR31kQ8Q1kVqgGOnUtYh1lPg9jXaB WgKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzHo/IY1h7tamr8Rh05jtaR4mImN9Jqbp7DzmRQI9mSNbvmvP2h Sa8t/AWOfyHEsHAsWFRZ9dvbyMMbUUsxgYrpuiAZBw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFvm9UgSD8cnNa72ej+WHrYvo9qVJW409Z5YtOvf/Lrgj5xjgdOFdLyL/6oNVStzWGAY3mC1QsE6310UjrQ5bs= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4a4a:b0:280:c98f:2092 with SMTP id lb10-20020a17090b4a4a00b00280c98f2092mr4853164pjb.33.1699882271710; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:31:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Nathan Owens Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 05:31:01 -0800 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink , =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_aspect?= =?UTF-8?Q?s_heard_this_time=21?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f73f92060a08ae84" Subject: Re: [Starlink] the real state of "smart agriculture"? X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:31:13 -0000 --000000000000f73f92060a08ae84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have about 2 years of ag experience=E2=80=A6 - farming is expensive and highly variable margin year to year, which makes it hard to justify investing in tech unless the payoff is very obvious / quick. - the tech that does exist isn=E2=80=99t standardized. Got a pivot from Zim= matic and one from Valley? 2 separate apps and whatnot. And the price to get a cell modem board for it is like $1500 + a subscription. - much of the smart field monitoring stuff is subscription based; you can= =E2=80=99t own it, and it=E2=80=99s not open. - integrating and using all this stuff requires some tech skills, the average age of a farmer is in their 60s, and not all of them are tech savvy (many are). On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 4:45=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > (I am hoping others on this list with real-world AG experience can > chime in? I enjoy realworld stories about present solutions and pain > points[2]) > > I have often been dubious of the 5g hope to dominate any major > component of a smart ag architecture except perhaps FWA, (where > starlink is poised and people also want to run fiber) to give it a > good run for the money- 5g chips are too big, too hard to power, and > too complex, and come with a monthly billing model and other > centralized requirements that make organic evolution and solid support > in remote environments dicy and expensive. > > I freely concede that I may be wrong, that with sufficient subsidies, > we will end up hanging the equivalent of a cellphone off of every > suitably large piece of gear and ship all the data up to the cloud, > rather than pre-process locally. Certainly the benefits of gps and > drones are being shown every day, along with satellite weather and > other forms of satellite analysis. [1] > > But the 5g sensor market? No. Nowadays smart sensors are easily > constructed out of wifi devices such as these which cost 5 dollars or > less: > > > https://www.amazon.com/DORHEA-Development-Microcontroller-NodeMCU-32S-ESP= -WROOM-32/dp/B086MJGFVV/ref=3Dasc_df_B086MJGFVV/ > > And the more meshy LoRA stuff now has much better range (4 miles), at > low complexity and power also. > > then there are things like amazon sidewalk: > https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D21328123011 > > And airtags. > > [1] On the other hand rigorous analysis of the food we produce has > recently discovered a marked decline in the percentage of nutritious > minerals over the past 100 years. Please see: > > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831 > > How smart is that? > > [2] Massive subsidy and diversion of river resources to the water > hungry california almond industry during the last 7 years of drought > led to the cancellation of the salmon fishing season last year. > > You should hear some of the invective that I used to hear aimed at > "the f-ing vegetarians" along the docks I frequent in half moon bay. > That I used to hear, anyway, The docks are eerily silent, the workers > at other jobs, the boats not going out for anything except crab and > squid. > > How smart is that? The California water table is a disaster, too. I > vastly prefer salmon to almonds personally.... > > I guess a meta point is easily gathering tactical data is one thing, > sharing it sanely another, deciding on how to use it strategically, > another. > > -- > :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --000000000000f73f92060a08ae84 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have about 2 years of ag experience=E2=80=A6
- farming is expensive and highly variable margin year to year= , which makes it hard to justify investing in tech unless the payoff is ver= y obvious / quick.
- the tech that does exist isn=E2= =80=99t standardized. Got a pivot from Zimmatic and one from Valley? 2 sepa= rate apps and whatnot. And the price to get a cell modem board for it is li= ke $1500 + a subscription.=C2=A0
- much of the smart= field monitoring stuff is subscription based; you can=E2=80=99t own it, an= d it=E2=80=99s not open.
- integrating and using all= this stuff requires some tech skills, the average age of a farmer is in th= eir 60s, and not all of them are tech savvy (many are).=C2=A0
On Mon, N= ov 13, 2023 at 4:45=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wro= te:
(I am hoping others on this list with real-wo= rld AG experience can
chime in? I enjoy realworld stories about present solutions and pain
points[2])

I have often been dubious of the 5g hope to dominate any major
component of a smart ag architecture except perhaps FWA, (where
starlink is poised and people also want to run fiber) to give it a
good run for the money- 5g chips are too big, too hard to power, and
too complex, and come with a monthly billing model and other
centralized requirements that make organic evolution and solid support
in remote environments dicy and expensive.

I freely concede that I may be wrong, that with sufficient subsidies,
we will end up hanging the equivalent of a cellphone off of every
suitably large piece of gear and ship all the data up to the cloud,
rather than pre-process locally. Certainly the benefits of gps and
drones are being shown every day, along with satellite weather and
other forms of satellite analysis. [1]

But the 5g sensor market? No. Nowadays smart sensors are easily
constructed out of wifi devices such as these which cost 5 dollars or
less:

https://www.amazon.com/DORHEA-Development-Microcontrol= ler-NodeMCU-32S-ESP-WROOM-32/dp/B086MJGFVV/ref=3Dasc_df_B086MJGFVV/

And the more meshy LoRA stuff now has much better range (4 miles), at
low complexity and power also.

then there are things like amazon sidewalk:
https://www.amazon.com/Amaz= on-Sidewalk/b?ie=3DUTF8&node=3D21328123011

And airtags.

[1] On the other hand rigorous analysis of the food we produce has
recently discovered a marked decline in the percentage of nutritious
minerals over the past 100 years. Please see:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/fu= ll/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831

How smart is that?

[2] Massive subsidy and diversion of river resources to the water
hungry california almond industry during the last 7 years of drought
led to the cancellation of the salmon fishing season last year.

You should hear some of the invective that I used to hear aimed at
"the f-ing vegetarians" along the docks I frequent in half moon b= ay.
That I used to hear, anyway, The docks are eerily silent, the workers
at other jobs, the boats not going out for anything except crab and
squid.

How smart is that? The California water table is a disaster, too. I
vastly prefer salmon to almonds personally....

I guess a meta point is easily gathering tactical data is one thing,
sharing it sanely another, deciding on how to use it strategically,
another.

--
:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab<= br> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
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Starlink mailing list
Starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
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