Here's the data visualization for Johnathan's Data [image: Screenshot 2023-01-13 at 12.29.15 PM.png] You can see the path change at :12, :27, :42, :57 after the minute. Some paths are clearly busier than others with increased loss, latency, and jitter. On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 10:09 AM Nathan Owens wrote: > I’ll run my visualization code on this result this afternoon and report > back! > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 9:41 AM Jonathan Bennett via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> The irtt command, run with normal, light usage: >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SiVCiUYnx7nDTxIVOY5w-z20S2O059rA/view?usp=share_link >> >> Jonathan Bennett >> Hackaday.com >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM Dave Taht wrote: >> >>> packet caps would be nice... all this is very exciting news. >>> >>> I'd so love for one or more of y'all reporting such great uplink >>> results nowadays to duplicate and re-plot the original irtt tests we >>> did: >>> >>> irtt client -i3ms -d300s myclosestservertoyou.starlink.taht.net -o >>> whatever.json >>> >>> They MUST have changed their scheduling to get such amazing uplink >>> results, in addition to better queue management. >>> >>> (for the record, my servers are de, london, fremont, sydney, dallas, >>> newark, atlanta, singapore, mumbai) >>> >>> There's an R and gnuplot script for plotting that output around here >>> somewhere (I have largely personally put down the starlink project, >>> loaning out mine) - that went by on this list... I should have written >>> a blog entry so I can find that stuff again. >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 9:02 AM Jonathan Bennett via Starlink >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 6:28 AM Ulrich Speidel via Starlink < >>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> On 13/01/2023 6:13 pm, Ulrich Speidel wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > From Auckland, New Zealand, using a roaming subscription, it puts me >>> >> > in touch with a server 2000 km away. OK then: >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > IP address: nix six. >>> >> > >>> >> > My thoughts shall follow later. >>> >> >>> >> OK, so here we go. >>> >> >>> >> I'm always a bit skeptical when it comes to speed tests - they're >>> really >>> >> laden with so many caveats that it's not funny. I took our new work >>> >> Starlink kit home in December to give it a try and the other day >>> finally >>> >> got around to set it up. It's on a roaming subscription because our >>> >> badly built-up campus really isn't ideal in terms of a clear view of >>> the >>> >> sky. Oh - and did I mention that I used the Starlink Ethernet adapter, >>> >> not the WiFi? >>> >> >>> >> Caveat 1: Location, location. I live in a place where the best >>> Starlink >>> >> promises is about 1/3 in terms of data rate you can actually get from >>> >> fibre to the home at under half of Starlink's price. Read: There are >>> few >>> >> Starlink users around. I might be the only one in my suburb. >>> >> >>> >> Caveat 2: Auckland has three Starlink gateways close by: Clevedon >>> (which >>> >> is at a stretch daytrip cycling distance from here), Te Hana and >>> Puwera, >>> >> the most distant of the three and about 130 km away from me as the >>> crow >>> >> flies. Read: My dishy can use any satellite that any of these three >>> can >>> >> see, and then depending on where I put it and how much of the southern >>> >> sky it can see, maybe also the one in Hinds, 840 km away, although >>> that >>> >> is obviously stretching it a bit. Either way, that's plenty of options >>> >> for my bits to travel without needing a lot of handovers. Why? Easy: >>> If >>> >> your nearest teleport is close by, then the set of satellites that the >>> >> teleport can see and the set that you can see is almost the same, so >>> you >>> >> can essentially stick with the same satellite while it's in view for >>> you >>> >> because it'll also be in view for the teleport. Pretty much any bird >>> >> above you will do. >>> >> >>> >> And because I don't get a lot of competition from other users in my >>> area >>> >> vying for one of the few available satellites that can see both us and >>> >> the teleport, this is about as good as it gets at 37S latitude. If I'd >>> >> want it any better, I'd have to move a lot further south. >>> >> >>> >> It'd be interesting to hear from Jonathan what the availability of >>> home >>> >> broadband is like in the Dallas area. I note that it's at a lower >>> >> latitude (33N) than Auckland, but the difference isn't huge. I notice >>> >> two teleports each about 160 km away, which is also not too bad. I >>> also >>> >> note Starlink availability in the area is restricted at the moment - >>> >> oversubscribed? But if Jonathan gets good data rates, then that means >>> >> that competition for bird capacity can't be too bad - for whatever >>> reason. >>> > >>> > I'm in Southwest Oklahoma, but Dallas is the nearby Starlink gateway. >>> In cities, like Dallas, and Lawton where I live, there are good broadband >>> options. But there are also many people that live outside cities, and the >>> options are much worse. The low density userbase in rural Oklahoma and >>> Texas is probably ideal conditions for Starlink. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Caveat 3: Backhaul. There isn't just one queue between me and >>> whatever I >>> >> talk to in terms of my communications. Traceroute shows about 10 hops >>> >> between me and the University of Auckland via Starlink. That's 10 >>> >> queues, not one. Many of them will have cross traffic. So it's a bit >>> >> hard to tell where our packets really get to wait or where they get >>> >> dropped. The insidious bit here is that a lot of them will be between >>> 1 >>> >> Gb/s and 10 Gb/s links, and with a bit of cross traffic, they can all >>> >> turn into bottlenecks. This isn't like a narrowband GEO link of a few >>> >> Mb/s where it's obvious where the dominant long latency bottleneck in >>> >> your TCP connection's path is. Read: It's pretty hard to tell whether >>> a >>> >> drop in "speed" is due to a performance issue in the Starlink system >>> or >>> >> somewhere between Starlink's systems and the target system. >>> >> >>> >> I see RTTs here between 20 ms and 250 ms, where the physical latency >>> >> should be under 15 ms. So there's clearly a bit of buffer here along >>> the >>> >> chain that occasionally fills up. >>> >> >>> >> Caveat 4: Handovers. Handover between birds and teleports is >>> inevitably >>> >> associated with a change in RTT and in most cases also available >>> >> bandwidth. Plus your packets now arrive at a new queue on a new >>> >> satellite while your TCP is still trying to respond to whatever it >>> >> thought the queue on the previous bird was doing. Read: Whatever your >>> >> cwnd is immediately after a handover, it's probably not what it >>> should be. >>> >> >>> >> I ran a somewhat hamstrung (sky view restricted) set of four Ookla >>> >> speedtest.net tests each to five local servers. Average upload rate >>> was >>> >> 13 Mb/s, average down 75.5 Mb/s. Upload to the server of the ISP that >>> >> Starlink seems to be buying its local connectivity from (Vocus Group) >>> >> varied between 3.04 and 14.38 Mb/s, download between 23.33 and 52.22 >>> >> Mb/s, with RTTs between 37 and 56 ms not correlating well to rates >>> >> observed. In fact, they were the ISP with consistently the worst >>> rates. >>> >> >>> >> Another ISP (MyRepublic) scored between 11.81 and 21.81 Mb/s up and >>> >> between 106.5 and 183.8 Mb/s down, again with RTTs badly correlating >>> >> with rates. Average RTT was the same as for Vocus. >>> >> >>> >> Note the variation though: More or less a factor of two between >>> highest >>> >> and lowest rates for each ISP. Did MyRepublic just get lucky in my >>> >> tests? Or is there something systematic behind this? Way too few tests >>> >> to tell. >>> >> >>> >> What these tests do is establish a ballpark. >>> >> >>> >> I'm currently repeating tests with dish placed on a trestle closer to >>> >> the heavens. This seems to have translated into fewer outages / ping >>> >> losses (around 1/4 of what I had yesterday with dishy on the ground on >>> >> my deck). Still good enough for a lengthy video Skype call with my >>> folks >>> >> in Germany, although they did comment about reduced video quality. But >>> >> maybe that was the lighting or the different background as I wasn't in >>> >> my usual spot with my laptop when I called them. >>> > >>> > Clear view of the sky is king for Starlink reliability. I've got my >>> dishy mounted on the back fence, looking up over an empty field, so it's >>> pretty much best-case scenario here. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> >>> >> **************************************************************** >>> >> Dr. Ulrich Speidel >>> >> >>> >> School of Computer Science >>> >> >>> >> Room 303S.594 (City Campus) >>> >> >>> >> The University of Auckland >>> >> u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz >>> >> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ >>> >> **************************************************************** >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Starlink mailing list >>> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Starlink mailing list >>> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz >>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >