From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-vs1-xe29.google.com (mail-vs1-xe29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CA1D3B2A4 for ; Wed, 9 Mar 2022 10:18:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe29.google.com with SMTP id u82so2740454vsu.0 for ; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 07:18:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nathan.io; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RZQgItPYtQPG8fHnq7zWhBgeev7GideA3KB0Kz6kl1Y=; b=I+GFZ56gtbLm9Q0zVunWCPVhkEcSYCrKal1LiQC+++neoQxNcVCHbSA4qojoGQsMQM feI6YpwYUeIC9i4zJCjY/N0sXr4+swCcfLRrH1zUsuypCh8EvHJp9qTyQerdmRydqFvq ru+olUiKesxeFUbBXvAfxpkgcm3NvwuQUcHmqt46w/m8boMBIqSWS1ZXRhbgQklcBAYx mr3Ru3wTD34qZAfowqD4/8uOvFbCkU0Uxs0x8XQMI5gI6JIqmRYGn/bzQmi10u5yrm2a skWtchGrPgUoWFMuev9hj3dC1tM482DK7qFEvK7Ed5DAto0sgLYtVcpS4qHTFphq81Kx MnJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RZQgItPYtQPG8fHnq7zWhBgeev7GideA3KB0Kz6kl1Y=; b=jhYYlxpPVvNiB5HFmRIWDi7KqUP/hBspHbhUil2aIMtjLpS7wzVAK64k4QvOJhSpbw Q064eMteSpExwWBiHfWF78lx9F7B26lcnccSAUyzaefiwNhj8wlwN54dK4HlMaDwcW6a litynIGU5dcrUsDNmFUcBJY9psEyQA2GTL20YyuTU2jF8a/mA5dzbgsCaLqjAWLdG8pJ /IPG4EhENPqx8uB+wi87/J9h9hGy6XwGlFM9KMqJn+LOsXMg32kB4W3ZvWzewiV6F/jU Iyz1UsTdl2f5+asAkp1rf17uuOJw5Bl1YTIIHhlsxrxtByd1JxXsXuv7DN1/zfsA2fny vgDg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hqTTA5feQ42wakjjKUBBUMY4EskiSJSzeGedBaAoF858UY5YU Wx4Ku0/cv1GL1rZZLKy4duNaq87kTyn0i8VlQiQNGw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/Fr4tQCGi/ohx2Hw98zEgsKWuB7LbSEcjg504RPmZOv7RL356e0tc9dbVCYHIXVl6VZGPEIK0hIBAkJQ+OCo= X-Received: by 2002:a67:4383:0:b0:320:8e4d:2c01 with SMTP id q125-20020a674383000000b003208e4d2c01mr10692241vsa.37.1646839089201; Wed, 09 Mar 2022 07:18:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Nathan Owens Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2022 07:17:58 -0800 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ea1c6b05d9ca9a10" Subject: Re: [Starlink] zoomready result X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:18:10 -0000 --000000000000ea1c6b05d9ca9a10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hmm, I=E2=80=99ll see if I can reproduce this, I don=E2=80=99t think I see = the same behavior. On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 6:57 AM Dave Taht wrote: > None of these web based tests run long enough to show the degradation > in starlink service that happens after a "speedtest" like interval. I > note that conceptually I don't have much problem with the idea of an > ISP throttling bandwidth for "hogs" after some interval, but I do have > a problem with that cost also being vastly increased delays whilst the > throttling happens. I talked to the attached plot in my recent talk > here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTWViGcBlnm0&t=3D29m45s > > When you are dependent on realtime comms, and sharing a link with > potentially many others, keeping queuing delays short no matter the > bandwidth, in a warzone, seems important. > > On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 9:24 AM Nathan Owens wrote: > > > > Here's mine when I'm not having any issues, pretty decent IMO: > > > > > https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=3D5d18f5f3-74b8-4cad-b= 7bf-3f5230fb993a > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 6:32 AM Livingood, Jason < > Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote: > >> > >> When folks experience sub-par video conferencing over Starlink, it'd b= e > great to see working latency stats at that time - such as via the easy te= st > at https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat. > >> > >> =EF=BB=BFOn 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht" < > starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of dave.taht@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-= zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFriv= rejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$ > >> > >> -- > >> I tried to build a better future, a few times: > >> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps*= 3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0= TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$ > >> > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starli= nk__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5Cx= lN2sj_SP7yVhg$ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > -- > I tried to build a better future, a few times: > https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > --000000000000ea1c6b05d9ca9a10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hmm, I=E2=80=99ll see if I can reproduce this, I don=E2= =80=99t think I see the same behavior.=C2=A0

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 6:5= 7 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.c= om> wrote:
None of these web based tests r= un long enough to show the degradation
in starlink service that happens after a "speedtest" like interva= l. I
note that conceptually I don't have much problem with the idea of an ISP throttling bandwidth for "hogs" after some interval, but I do= have
a problem with that cost also being vastly increased delays whilst the
throttling happens. I talked to the attached plot in my recent talk
here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D= TWViGcBlnm0&t=3D29m45s

When you are dependent on realtime comms, and sharing a link with
potentially many others, keeping queuing delays short no matter the
bandwidth, in a warzone, seems important.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 9:24 AM Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> wrote:
>
> Here's mine when I'm not having any issues, pretty decent IMO:=
>
> https:= //www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=3D5d18f5f3-74b8-4cad-b7bf-3f52= 30fb993a
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 6:32 AM Livingood, Jason <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com<= /a>> wrote:
>>
>> When folks experience sub-par video conferencing over Starlink, it= 'd be great to see working latency stats at that time - such as via the= easy test at https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat.
>>
>> =EF=BB=BFOn 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht&= quot; <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of dave.taht@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://urldefense.com/v3/_= _https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-dow= n.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3= _5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I tried to build a better future, a few times:<= br> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wa= yforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!= TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$=
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________=
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Starlink mailing list
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/li= stinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfD= JTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starl= ink



--
I tried to build a better future, a few times:
https://wayforward.archive.org/?sit= e=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org

Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
--000000000000ea1c6b05d9ca9a10--