From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A2EA3B29E for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2022 11:57:42 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1664207855; bh=EIhnhy9EiCjfu0mqHHkPC0IMB8ehEDlu2rnQ7w0LZVE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=MeBi/2vrsEeXA596TqJqfDC2pUa4Bf7ClC2NB5cgmtRI8Zi42DD6NVh+nr/MEgyY+ /cq5uEO/WUf0rwJeICpN++x2Qm+dE8Waht6IUkmslWoNVaHJSG3KfHylc7uRZsY5o0 x+9sAYY55jwwvstbWOxUifJafQUh40bhD++kd84k= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MDywo-1oVBVL2Uui-009vsu; Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:57:35 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:57:34 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <060F7695-D48E-413C-9501-54ECC651ABEB@cable.comcast.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Dave Taht via Starlink , Daniel AJ Sokolov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Q/7hj64qmcI/4k7hWxwFvYoOtcBZ75w6koHXDLK4p303Rj9Pnq0 9lCFgwBRTQlgHi1Iv+oWRZ5akEvNpgE0qiZGFYM3G9fNpH9iUv2KAiCVVyCJamyF8eF5Ji2 kTrRbcYeUTcasMcXt1umMIJMANVdZ3NkELNXyPzLXsJeYaCZX4UKv1kDYZ9oBFUFfWavXu7 2iNxT7F4BOe+phifwh5GA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:0dKBQR5OcA8=:ExrlnvViuPzTFUH3J5KFq9 r1OGJErZohg46LapLj7dPQvRuGvcvrA8RZ3UXsUzVX9bHxIAAGR4cIO/m+pvXiqkXfJasjc0S NUViBI9x6epccCBcKLhzTg+/V4Dl+mqfl8bf+NNt2mqezLpxHmGUSYC3L5pZ3jaGURQ55NoOq 5J+LY1BWONWtMYrji1vX/p1I9mIICwjm1pZxg4zS7jhlaceWeEpFgp8UxmqxzzAt907JMdDzg 4pwM/AX9JOhDdv3KGECO/huFgUXKh8o1Nd9YjmhUP5/bKp9IJokMdTkR8pX23g/BFxsbHJwjg t9tAiOHalf5gsWY8OO5NVrU5xbUJ051Mu2SJG3V1VSBfR1odInnsFxOTxsc/dRcWkhYka9TZ6 GkkEzN0NimipSFtf1Au5GIyboubbui405at1gdNS+Rg/VNXCh5qqO9qu2hweu8cbsng+WMhE6 dgsrJrRiHBgscUDM55gFaqYVd5Hy/dx5/usntTHf+KwOwwhxJR46xl3VFwmwYyCTyAk+MN8k+ EE1jRlzXKqyWlGHVgBcXvZ+TPoP0inGN0gBDEyL83bbjZuEMMTxq7ltPAm/c/Y+nQulfTv5yg VWC4HcSXMyZDdJwciXLkUOk45fg86K9b2gdZwlSwyhLnm8t8GJQjMdEWms7gAljLL5xcldgJT 5PVAer7DRNRb71UU/oCXyX5dyoq0wjLooikFkBRhy8vjgiWWUPwdlhEyOisxlbb7hpe0Q6Aht uZMEB0CVWX3GbYQxHg8P2OdWfeRqcCOD83j2BfEte2ZrIBOO9N5QYwPni7RmdiFj090Oeo+H4 O1mbSEj0juza0/urtf3C8yv1cgsYc2ijzi/M1YywBWf49oSoztKqeJHC38GFMTUlsVD0yYxUa VuP0gKt9zqSgFM9mYXXGdJrC58dRUvAOIx+U3tl+QdHLTeNh9OJZPnOJLZ6gWy8/T8jAZepoZ A1hP278dgYY9eFuuUig4Un67S7dOS5BnlLc69yV31ay+Un98ieGWXF4mptGEQGrY6MOhl/r6/ PaS1uRVnYV85Pb3yNsY56sdt+Z/wpSIrQC/Tdbl/qZoppK+I3iB7BADn+kCJ2MIlpLyabPKKJ c7h5t0IOXLjUTPrsKdYBueHoTNMnlcIpCXYWYxR+2L4j64Tn4mUJApgrQtp538Ns7RtsrkLwO 1TiAgPHuSxO8QzSF1KgcKZ4r9j Subject: Re: [Starlink] It's still the starlink latency... X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 15:57:43 -0000 Hi Dave, > On Sep 26, 2022, at 17:29, Dave Taht via Starlink = wrote: >=20 > On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 8:20 AM Livingood, Jason > wrote: >>=20 >> The awareness & understanding of latency & impact on QoE is nearly = unknown among reporters. IMO maybe there should be some kind of = background briefings for reporters - maybe like a simple YouTube video = explainer that is short & high level & visual? Otherwise reporters will = just continue to focus on what they know... >=20 > That's a great idea. I have visions of crashing the washington > correspondents dinner, but perhaps > there is some set of gatherings journalists regularly attend? I would assume the relevant tech-journalists might be easier to = catch at PR events at trade shows, or tech-related PR events like CES. However, starlink's own website does not seem to prominently = advertise specific rates anyway, but does stress the latency advantage = over geo stationary satellite links. The rest of the residential market however has been trained for = decades now that the most relevant numbers are the maximal throughput* = (well mostly downloads only), hence I can understand that articles will = mention regressions of that number prominently.=20 I just stumbled over a German article = (https://www.heise.de/news/Speedtests-Satelliteninternet-Starlink-teilweis= e-deutlich-langsamer-geworden-7275243.html) apparently presenting the = same Ookla numbers for starlink containing a single short paragraph = about latency increases, but without explaining their relevance, so = exactly what you see in the other article as well; @Daniel anything we = could do to make your colleague? Martin Holland more latency aware? >> =EF=BB=BFOn 9/21/22, 14:35, "Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht via = Starlink" wrote: >>=20 >> I still find it remarkable that reporters are still missing the >> meaning of the huge latencies for starlink, under load. In their "defense" a similar level of latency-awareness is often = displayed when talking about wired internet connections. (And from my = perspective, I consider absolute latency somewhat less important than = latency variation) *) I am not trying to assign responsibility/blame here, I think both = ISPs and customers jointly "selected" maximal contracted throughput as = measure of choice to justify differential prices. >=20 > --=20 > FQ World Domination pending: = https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink