From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.onholyground.com (mail.onholyground.com [204.130.133.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE1603CB37 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 21:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (castleinthewoods.onholyground.com [204.130.133.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.onholyground.com (8.14.9/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 1A51IkmV026894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Nov 2021 20:18:46 -0500 From: Darrell Budic Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A4453AC0-EFB4-40D7-937E-A9C06BC62169" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 20:18:45 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ulrich Speidel , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net To: Nathan Owens References: <7907F9D1-9511-4254-BD8F-701888EB6778@onholyground.com> <4ea38008-0e62-1cad-165a-a8aad232ebd6@cs.auckland.ac.nz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (mail.onholyground.com [204.130.133.20]); Thu, 04 Nov 2021 20:18:47 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checked: This message probably not SPAM (-3.168) X-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE,TXREP X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink tidbits from NANOG X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 01:18:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A4453AC0-EFB4-40D7-937E-A9C06BC62169 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 4, 2021, at 8:05 PM, Nathan Owens wrote: >=20 > > They are using waves back to regional DCs now, but will be moving to=20= > > dark fiber over the next year or two > If that means "radio" waves, then this goes a long way to explaining = why=20 > there's already limited capacity even near the US-Canada border. >=20 > Waves in this case generally refers to 10G/100G leased optical circuit = capacity.=20 As has already been mentioned, I did mean optical waves. Comes from my = perspective as a network guy who uses lots of optical transport and DWDM = systems. Realized I should have been more specific about optical waves, = especially in this forum. Even more specifically, =E2=80=9Cwaves=E2=80=9D = are generally a product provided you by someone else who lights the = fiber for you. In this case, probably Zayo, Lumen, Crown Castle, and = maybe even Google operating the fiber. Generally 10G waves, or some = multiple there of, although 100G waves are out there, and 400G are = coming/testing/just entering production.=20 In this case, I suspect it means 10G waves given the currently estimated = capacity of the ground stations. Moving to dark lets them do Nx10G links = more cost effectively, or 100G link if the distance is short enough = (around 100km at the moment before you have to go to the much more = expensive coherent optics). And you can do you own support and = monitoring, which I got the impression was part of their problem with = Google=E2=80=99s NOC.= --Apple-Mail=_A4453AC0-EFB4-40D7-937E-A9C06BC62169 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = Nov 4, 2021, at 8:05 PM, Nathan Owens <nathan@nathan.io> = wrote:

> They are using waves back to = regional DCs now, but will be moving to 
> dark = fiber over the next year or two
If that means "radio" waves, then this goes a long way to = explaining why 
there's already limited capacity even near the US-Canada = border.

Waves in this case generally refers to 10G/100G leased = optical circuit capacity. 

As has already been mentioned, I did mean = optical waves. Comes from my perspective as a network guy who uses lots = of optical transport and DWDM systems. Realized I should have been more = specific about optical waves, especially in this forum. Even more = specifically, =E2=80=9Cwaves=E2=80=9D are generally a product provided = you by someone else who lights the fiber for you. In this case, probably = Zayo, Lumen, Crown Castle, and maybe even Google operating the fiber. = Generally 10G waves, or some multiple there of, although 100G waves are = out there, and 400G are coming/testing/just entering = production. 

In this case, I suspect it means 10G waves given the = currently estimated capacity of the ground stations. Moving to dark lets = them do Nx10G links more cost effectively, or 100G link if the distance = is short enough (around 100km at the moment before you have to go to the = much more expensive coherent optics). And you can do you own support and = monitoring, which I got the impression was part of their problem with = Google=E2=80=99s NOC.
= --Apple-Mail=_A4453AC0-EFB4-40D7-937E-A9C06BC62169--