From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6E573B29E for ; Wed, 24 May 2023 14:45:58 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1684953954; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=1HLsGIgFGn1Ns02pOiILK7zPRLbxF/R/3hWYdkqusfo=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=JrsQg7LX/LHaEKcdTJpIDvTlHLYumyWjAw+csDaO3QllsKan1fZ7Ra3LbpORFZSOo onm0AyFsHWL3eJUmqytQ/C8KIsOPy/Hv/BbIkOK4C1urG3HiEMXMA3TntRtsc7Puc5 T1xwxyo8zG7vI4SzkaAxU8wI5qZsJqo+qLYGYlyIlpFx8ZLDjWFcbu/j0WvaY87Tuc fTg4X9oejhJ1HFEDpJIIcZF+I2MF+gLSjbRaTUDlxc00cHTrtCV5QV3DNpaHGDu14d zVi+xxQ5hdwFpks+ErKqREvsqZbC6rrXPqluTdLiMx6WywWf6v6eVEHtub/K1AEzHS y9O4LJKoGLDPA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([77.0.73.214]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MUXtS-1pbSdu2bei-00QPoj; Wed, 24 May 2023 20:45:54 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.3\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <2933754.1684953035@dyas> Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 20:45:53 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0no84q43-s4n6-45n8-50or-12o3rq104n99@ynat.uz> <48b00469-0dbb-54c4-bedb-3aecbf714a1a@auckland.ac.nz> <728orr66-1432-751p-263q-sqopr12s20sq@ynat.uz> <077e6ad1-d7cc-2d57-39f8-e9646bea32a5@auckland.ac.nz> <09552rq0-0n24-0pqo-4085-n918r0n71138@ynat.uz> <9q29o7n2-69rs-3os1-s93q-0795262qs3o1@ynat.uz> <1c9df33b-e964-f531-7326-1a11b159e6a7@auckland.ac.nz> <5307.1684939754@localhost> <2933754.1684953035@dyas> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.3) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jLbQjlexmFaOPG9iEFCf5pbmKZ4bNp02gnHT6KD6k7i5iItmaiL zkaECe9xCw0g4btoYiTlyqpba2diio4DeVcmKaNpvUSLWQGO9LdAtIRBxyhvoc4WrtwIO3T cMisXd4/BDt5ZeXPuD9qSVNjRxTajYOd1QxCLgDQP6H0uG1lYlFhSOVmjLPr5I0fpDWX44v 1b9fgYCEfaQ3tdUrNQUrw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:3d5eGOerm00=;adyVFZbYaSVJy4qZ8/K7HU4V4ng RyVso8S85bPSGg7uWB2ZRubAMh1Pe1IwrVqkcWH0PBum0AeM+8Awmys4DRveseApwtG6Uh3WA jUCCfv+gVRfMeOKjpCONozA5z4XgK7gZWMkvGZ6gcbY5nlnAFTDAmZtc/oYb6+RwgeJDNyLFR bHrDoIRr4yrYfcbLQjHcBupAvK53JpOfH8F2XjpeVr1MLMk40NHKEQ8VTgtgwrzmr9A+w5OmH 05bqQ/oVsIS6EmW5SVNcdRoISGrsvRBdRcUliNHshJrkj4cF8SP+0zwycr6XM+1L1Q1biy+Lt C5xzjhw4JuC1afhw0uEAT6flJxafvBed6VztSiglBmPdIEe8QxQF/uoi7YoTeUGt8Xlp2sM44 z2j2YBikCuVyMFxKdDUac5LmWvFvVxttriJS6L7LheUUgUIvo0apRkaBicBEEPcdwTxoiFNDd YDiNWVF9t+qfrIkrUwiKvSZwG9Ar1vnd9kw/mGV+I3vWNV854bmOQAqi587fcvfsUzqKJRyT+ 6NiIACgGhWWVq8jeUHtZpcYtSypjxoSl7P6iFv2XdiS0rzhqVq2tGNgzOTroK0LPI3M32E4iY 1hfiIbBa+byeAlv+DeAMw5nsHxPr2JioK4JsC7X9T0Pra7BZoNeuLLHg8WkFHNQnsev/ag6Jw njGB5A4YZ0K2NDP0TiQ7kwC0pjzEGlfCcUji6pnCyIMs4KrxtEU8RTQdWx/fQIcmSHmgBbl/t VgwXQH0T3KVN+3BzRBF09nu2X5EnZE5r77n5OpAKPfE4l14VXqfBTlGdD4QBm/FBl05kTFC23 6WxHrgANlHGz62OI6klMWoL7gRzf8fsFYVJjZuccBvhgvEOfeHMfX5eNgRRoOMVejAuf5ZWqi O86JtT5Fvc/f9Xz2x7UhGe2wDOtzMEg9X4ThFXLs7lsw4MQhePOW3E9LLbmI1GlBwrrbn+Gq1 z7TiQQ== Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink hidden buffers X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 18:45:59 -0000 Hi Michael, > On May 24, 2023, at 20:30, Michael Richardson via Starlink = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Dave Taht wrote: >>> Could fq_codel emit flow statistics as a side-effect of it's >>> classifications? >=20 >> It does. It always has. "tc -s class show" gives details of each = queue. >=20 > Good. > Just a question of hooking up luci to that. Keep in mind by default fq_codel uses 1024 hash bins, so worst = case your GUI needs to display quite a lot of units; on the other hand = many flows are really short, and the "tc -s class show" has little = "hysteresis" that is once a hash bin runs empty, fq_codel will not = report data for that bin. (Which is fine as empty buckets tend to be not = very informative, but when using this output to feed a display tool now = your sampling/query rate might be too coarse and not show ephemeral = buckets). >=20 >> There are some really cool things you can do at high sample rates. >> Here is a live/realtime movie of what netflix actually looks like: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DC-2oSBr2200 (also) Another thing is >=20 > A movie about people watching movies :-) And a "silent move" at that, very meta and very old school ;) > I wonder about the privacy implications of doing this at an ISP. I think keeping the full 5-tuple input to the hash function = might be problematic, but "reducing" that to the 10bit bucket-ID should = be lossy enough, no? Regards Sebastian P.S.: for cake luci statistics has grown a module that plots the outputs = of `tc -s qdisc` for cake instances over time. Sure that is not the = per-flow or per hash-bin resolution, but for quickly seeing whether = there is on-going high level marking/dropping it should suffice... >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink