From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.taht.net (mail.taht.net [IPv6:2a01:7e00:e000:2d4:f00f:f00f:b33b:b33b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DED653B29E for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 11:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (mobile-166-177-248-82.mycingular.net [166.177.248.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.taht.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E0D2F22976; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:28:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Dave Taht Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4E8EA3B2-E294-4EA4-A681-61A1B3AB4593" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.80.0.2.43\)) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 08:28:47 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, Matt Mathis To: Nick Buraglio References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.80.0.2.43) Subject: Re: [Starlink] plotting all the data X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:28:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4E8EA3B2-E294-4EA4-A681-61A1B3AB4593 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I once wrote a song about how the challenger disaster reshaped my life, = and made me as stubborn as I am about getting and presenting good data = and taking sane actions on it. https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3D19123104&cid=3D61496334 I only get the urge to play it nowadays when things somewhere else are = going badly wrong. Played it every darn day for the past couple weeks. > On Jun 17, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Nick Buraglio = wrote: >=20 > This is much more common in the high performance computing and = networking space (i.e. perfsonar, TWAMP, and OWAMP). I have also been = pushing "gather and store all the data" for ....since I was an engineer = working on the Teragrid (which is where I first saw Matt's MTU talk = around 2002 or 03, BTW). =3D)=20 > High fidelity plots of everything that can be gathered is laborious to = curate but is invaluable for so many reasons. Now we just need a way to = make it happen everywhere for everyone in a way that's easy.=20 >=20 > nb >=20 >=20 > On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 8:57 AM Dave Taht > wrote: > Capturing and plotting *all* the data is often revealing.=20 >=20 > Sometimes plotting the data you are discarding (for what seems like = sane reasons) is quite revealing. Saw this on slashdot this morning, = it=E2=80=99s good... >=20 > = https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/06/21/when-graphs-are-a-matter-of-= life-and-death = >=20 > In the bufferbloat effort I=E2=80=99ve fought time and time again for = folk to stop throwing out data above the 95 percentile, and at the very = least plot everything they threw out to find patterns... >=20 > dslreports=E2=80=99 graphing tools, for example, throws out a ton of = =E2=80=9Coutliers" =E2=80=A6 and the only reason why there is no data = past 4 sec here, is that the test doesn=E2=80=99t run long enough.=20 >=20 > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=3D1 = >=20 > (been trying to get ahold of someone over there to buy their raw data = for years now. They have the biggest - 8 years worth - collection) >=20 > mlabs has a similar data reduction issue that they haven=E2=80=99t got = around to fixing.=20 >=20 > And more recently we encountered a smoothing problem in wireshark that = made a halt in packet processing look more like a normal tcp cwnd = cut=E2=80=A6. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink = --Apple-Mail=_4E8EA3B2-E294-4EA4-A681-61A1B3AB4593 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I once wrote a song about how the challenger disaster = reshaped my life, and made me as stubborn as I am about getting and = presenting good data and taking sane actions on it.

https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3D19123104&cid= =3D61496334

I = only get the urge to play it nowadays when things somewhere else are = going badly wrong. Played it every darn day for the past couple = weeks.



On Jun 17, 2021, at 7:24 AM, Nick Buraglio = <buraglio@forwardingplane.net> wrote:

This is much more common in the high performance computing = and networking space (i.e. perfsonar, TWAMP, and OWAMP). I have also = been pushing "gather and store all the data" for ....since I was an = engineer working on the Teragrid (which is where I first saw Matt's MTU = talk around 2002 or 03, BTW).  =3D) 
High = fidelity plots of everything that can be gathered is laborious to curate = but is invaluable for so many reasons. Now we just need a way to make it = happen everywhere for everyone in a way that's easy. 

nb


On Thu, Jun = 17, 2021 at 8:57 AM Dave Taht <davet@teklibre.net> wrote:
Capturing and plotting *all* the data = is often revealing.

Sometimes plotting the data you are discarding (for what seems like sane = reasons) is quite revealing.  Saw this on slashdot this morning, = it=E2=80=99s good...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/06/21/when-graphs-are-a= -matter-of-life-and-death

In the bufferbloat effort I=E2=80=99ve fought time and time again for = folk to stop throwing out data above the 95 percentile, and at the very = least plot everything they threw out to find patterns...

dslreports=E2=80=99 graphing tools, for example, throws out a ton of = =E2=80=9Coutliers" =E2=80=A6 and the only reason why there is no data = past 4 sec here, is that the test doesn=E2=80=99t run long enough.

http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=3D1<= /a>

(been trying to get ahold of someone over there to buy their raw data = for years now. They have the biggest - 8 years worth - collection)

mlabs has a similar data reduction issue that they haven=E2=80=99t got = around to fixing.

And more recently we encountered a smoothing problem in wireshark that = made a halt in packet processing look more like a normal tcp cwnd = cut=E2=80=A6.

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