* [Starlink] geo-engineering... @ 2023-07-19 22:55 Dave Taht 2023-07-20 4:25 ` Loganaden Velvindron 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2023-07-19 22:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht via Starlink MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ -- Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-19 22:55 [Starlink] geo-engineering Dave Taht @ 2023-07-20 4:25 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 4:37 ` George C. G. Barbosa 2023-07-20 16:39 ` Michael Richardson 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 4:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht; +Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 510 bytes --] This should get deployed asap. On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: > > https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ > -- > Podcast: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1216 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 4:25 ` Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 4:37 ` George C. G. Barbosa 2023-07-20 5:06 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 16:39 ` Michael Richardson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: George C. G. Barbosa @ 2023-07-20 4:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Loganaden Velvindron; +Cc: Dave Taht, Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1141 bytes --] It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard problem. The solution won't be simple. On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > This should get deployed asap. > > On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: >> >> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ >> -- >> Podcast: >> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2414 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 4:37 ` George C. G. Barbosa @ 2023-07-20 5:06 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 5:16 ` Hayden Simon 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 5:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: George C. G. Barbosa; +Cc: Dave Taht, Dave Taht via Starlink Switching to nuclear energy could be an option. We can all learn from France's experience. I agree that We should stop pumping CO2 in the atmosphere. ICE cars should be phased out more aggressively. Governments should give tax breaks to companies with work from home policies ? On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 08:37, George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> wrote: > > It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard problem. The solution won't be simple. > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >> This should get deployed asap. >> >> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: >>> >>> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ >>> -- >>> Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227111937/ >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 5:06 ` Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 5:16 ` Hayden Simon 2023-07-20 6:33 ` Loganaden Velvindron 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hayden Simon @ 2023-07-20 5:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Loganaden Velvindron, George C. G. Barbosa; +Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2635 bytes --] How do you apply a statement like that to the middle east? 20million people in Cairo / Giza; 110million (I think?) total in Egypt. Fuel is NZ$0.50c/litre; cars freaking everywhere running all day long. Average salaries are very low. How would they afford the transition away from fossil fuels? You could extend that same question to any developing economy. We're never going to be able to make a useful dent in emissions until we address the developing world. HAYDEN SIMON UBER GROUP LIMITED MANAGING DIRECTOR E: h@uber.nz M: 021 0707 014 W: www.uber.nz 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND -----Original Message----- From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 5:06 PM To: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... Switching to nuclear energy could be an option. We can all learn from France's experience. I agree that We should stop pumping CO2 in the atmosphere. ICE cars should be phased out more aggressively. Governments should give tax breaks to companies with work from home policies ? On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 08:37, George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> wrote: > > It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard problem. The solution won't be simple. > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >> This should get deployed asap. >> >> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: >>> >>> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ >>> -- >>> Podcast: >>> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:705879391022711 >>> 1937/ >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 9113 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 5:16 ` Hayden Simon @ 2023-07-20 6:33 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 6:44 ` Hayden Simon 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 6:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hayden Simon; +Cc: George C. G. Barbosa, Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3110 bytes --] On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 09:16, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> wrote: > How do you apply a statement like that to the middle east? 20million > people in Cairo / Giza; 110million (I think?) total in Egypt. Fuel is > NZ$0.50c/litre; cars freaking everywhere running all day long. Average > salaries are very low. How would they afford the transition away from > fossil fuels? You could extend that same question to any developing economy. > > We're never going to be able to make a useful dent in emissions until we > address the developing world. > > I come from a developing country. Our government is giving tax breaks on hybrid and EVs on import. I agree that there is more we can do ... > > HAYDEN SIMON > UBER GROUP LIMITED > MANAGING DIRECTOR > <https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> > <https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> > E: h@uber.nz > M: 021 0707 014 <021%200707%20014> > W: www.uber.nz > 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND > > -----Original Message----- > From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of > Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 5:06 PM > To: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> > Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... > > Switching to nuclear energy could be an option. We can all learn from > France's experience. I agree that We should stop pumping CO2 in the > atmosphere. ICE cars should be phased out more aggressively. > Governments should give tax breaks to companies with work from home > policies ? > > On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 08:37, George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep > pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, > which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts > for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard > problem. The solution won't be simple. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> This should get deployed asap. > >> > >> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: > >>> > >>> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ > >>> -- > >>> Podcast: > >>> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:705879391022711 > >>> 1937/ > >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Starlink mailing list > >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 10921 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 6:33 ` Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 6:44 ` Hayden Simon 2023-07-20 6:53 ` Loganaden Velvindron 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hayden Simon @ 2023-07-20 6:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Loganaden Velvindron; +Cc: George C. G. Barbosa, Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4301 bytes --] Snap. Does the context of your developing country match that of my example (Egypt?) I can’t see them doing anything at scale; they simply don’t have the money/political motivation. HAYDEN SIMON UBER GROUP LIMITED MANAGING DIRECTOR [https://uber.nz/app/uploads/signatures/uber-facebook-icon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> [https://uber.nz/app/uploads/signatures/uber-twitter-icon.png]<https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> E: h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz> M: 021 0707 014<tel:021%200707%20014> W: www.uber.nz<http://www.uber.nz/> 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND From: Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 6:33 PM To: Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> Cc: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>; Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 09:16, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz>> wrote: How do you apply a statement like that to the middle east? 20million people in Cairo / Giza; 110million (I think?) total in Egypt. Fuel is NZ$0.50c/litre; cars freaking everywhere running all day long. Average salaries are very low. How would they afford the transition away from fossil fuels? You could extend that same question to any developing economy. We're never going to be able to make a useful dent in emissions until we address the developing world. I come from a developing country. Our government is giving tax breaks on hybrid and EVs on import. I agree that there is more we can do ... HAYDEN SIMON UBER GROUP LIMITED MANAGING DIRECTOR [Image removed by sender.]<https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> [Image removed by sender.]<https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> E: h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz> M: 021 0707 014<tel:021%200707%20014> W: www.uber.nz<http://www.uber.nz/> 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND -----Original Message----- From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net>> On Behalf Of Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 5:06 PM To: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com<mailto:gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>> Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... Switching to nuclear energy could be an option. We can all learn from France's experience. I agree that We should stop pumping CO2 in the atmosphere. ICE cars should be phased out more aggressively. Governments should give tax breaks to companies with work from home policies ? On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 08:37, George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com<mailto:gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>> wrote: > > It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard problem. The solution won't be simple. > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote: >> >> This should get deployed asap. >> >> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote: >>> >>> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: >>> >>> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ >>> -- >>> Podcast: >>> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:705879391022711 >>> 1937/ >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 22765 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: ~WRD1518.jpg --] [-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 823 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 6:44 ` Hayden Simon @ 2023-07-20 6:53 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 6:56 ` Hayden Simon 2023-07-20 7:40 ` Daniel AJ Sokolov 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 6:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hayden Simon; +Cc: George C. G. Barbosa, Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4447 bytes --] On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 10:45, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> wrote: > Snap. Does the context of your developing country match that of my example > (Egypt?) I can’t see them doing anything at scale; they simply don’t have > the money/political motivation. > Yes. We have similar issues in Mauritius. We are also a small country. We have too many ICE cars on the road. However, we saw an increase in hybrid/EV purchases in 2022 and the number is growing for 2023. I'm not a Nissan fan, but the Nissan Leaf is the most affordable one. > > HAYDEN SIMON > > UBER GROUP LIMITED > > MANAGING DIRECTOR > > <https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> > > <https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> > > *E:* h@uber.nz > > *M:* 021 0707 014 <021%200707%20014> > > *W:* www.uber.nz > > 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2023 6:33 PM > *To:* Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> > *Cc:* George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>; Dave Taht via Starlink > <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > *Subject:* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... > > > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 09:16, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> wrote: > > How do you apply a statement like that to the middle east? 20million > people in Cairo / Giza; 110million (I think?) total in Egypt. Fuel is > NZ$0.50c/litre; cars freaking everywhere running all day long. Average > salaries are very low. How would they afford the transition away from > fossil fuels? You could extend that same question to any developing economy. > > We're never going to be able to make a useful dent in emissions until we > address the developing world. > > I come from a developing country. Our government is giving tax breaks on > hybrid and EVs on import. I agree that there is more we can do ... > > > > > > HAYDEN SIMON > > UBER GROUP LIMITED > > MANAGING DIRECTOR > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > <https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> > > [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> > > *E:* h@uber.nz > > *M:* 021 0707 014 <021%200707%20014> > > *W:* www.uber.nz > > 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of > Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 5:06 PM > To: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> > Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... > > Switching to nuclear energy could be an option. We can all learn from > France's experience. I agree that We should stop pumping CO2 in the > atmosphere. ICE cars should be phased out more aggressively. > Governments should give tax breaks to companies with work from home > policies ? > > On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 08:37, George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep > pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, > which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts > for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard > problem. The solution won't be simple. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> This should get deployed asap. > >> > >> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: > >>> > >>> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ > >>> -- > >>> Podcast: > >>> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:705879391022711 > >>> 1937/ > >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Starlink mailing list > >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 20750 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: ~WRD1518.jpg --] [-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 823 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 6:53 ` Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 6:56 ` Hayden Simon 2023-07-20 7:13 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 7:40 ` Daniel AJ Sokolov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Hayden Simon @ 2023-07-20 6:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Loganaden Velvindron; +Cc: George C. G. Barbosa, Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5549 bytes --] Woosh, the issues there must be significant. 1.2million people! I expect you’d import all your fuel? How is electricity generated there? HAYDEN SIMON UBER GROUP LIMITED MANAGING DIRECTOR [https://uber.nz/app/uploads/signatures/uber-facebook-icon.png]<https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> [https://uber.nz/app/uploads/signatures/uber-twitter-icon.png]<https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> E: h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz> M: 021 0707 014<tel:021%200707%20014> W: www.uber.nz<http://www.uber.nz/> 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND From: Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 6:53 PM To: Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> Cc: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>; Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 10:45, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz>> wrote: Snap. Does the context of your developing country match that of my example (Egypt?) I can’t see them doing anything at scale; they simply don’t have the money/political motivation. Yes. We have similar issues in Mauritius. We are also a small country. We have too many ICE cars on the road. However, we saw an increase in hybrid/EV purchases in 2022 and the number is growing for 2023. I'm not a Nissan fan, but the Nissan Leaf is the most affordable one. HAYDEN SIMON UBER GROUP LIMITED MANAGING DIRECTOR [Image removed by sender.]<https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> [Image removed by sender.]<https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> E: h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz> M: 021 0707 014<tel:021%200707%20014> W: www.uber.nz<http://www.uber.nz/> 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND From: Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com<mailto:loganaden@gmail.com>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 6:33 PM To: Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz>> Cc: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com<mailto:gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>>; Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 09:16, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz>> wrote: How do you apply a statement like that to the middle east? 20million people in Cairo / Giza; 110million (I think?) total in Egypt. Fuel is NZ$0.50c/litre; cars freaking everywhere running all day long. Average salaries are very low. How would they afford the transition away from fossil fuels? You could extend that same question to any developing economy. We're never going to be able to make a useful dent in emissions until we address the developing world. I come from a developing country. Our government is giving tax breaks on hybrid and EVs on import. I agree that there is more we can do ... HAYDEN SIMON UBER GROUP LIMITED MANAGING DIRECTOR [Image removed by sender.]<https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> [Image removed by sender.]<https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> E: h@uber.nz<mailto:h@uber.nz> M: 021 0707 014<tel:021%200707%20014> W: www.uber.nz<http://www.uber.nz/> 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND -----Original Message----- From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net>> On Behalf Of Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 5:06 PM To: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com<mailto:gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>> Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... Switching to nuclear energy could be an option. We can all learn from France's experience. I agree that We should stop pumping CO2 in the atmosphere. ICE cars should be phased out more aggressively. Governments should give tax breaks to companies with work from home policies ? On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 08:37, George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com<mailto:gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>> wrote: > > It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard problem. The solution won't be simple. > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote: >> >> This should get deployed asap. >> >> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote: >>> >>> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: >>> >>> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ >>> -- >>> Podcast: >>> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:705879391022711 >>> 1937/ >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 33919 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: ~WRD2830.jpg --] [-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 823 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 6:56 ` Hayden Simon @ 2023-07-20 7:13 ` Loganaden Velvindron 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Loganaden Velvindron @ 2023-07-20 7:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hayden Simon; +Cc: George C. G. Barbosa, Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5611 bytes --] On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> wrote: > Woosh, the issues there must be significant. 1.2million people! I expect > you’d import all your fuel? How is electricity generated there? > Yes, our fuel is imported. Coal burning is how we produce energy. There is a plan to become net zero. However, it's clear that it needs to happen sooner. I think that nuclear power is an option. > > > HAYDEN SIMON > > UBER GROUP LIMITED > > MANAGING DIRECTOR > > <https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> > > <https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> > > *E:* h@uber.nz > > *M:* 021 0707 014 <021%200707%20014> > > *W:* www.uber.nz > > 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2023 6:53 PM > *To:* Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> > *Cc:* George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>; Dave Taht via Starlink > <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > *Subject:* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... > > > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 10:45, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> wrote: > > Snap. Does the context of your developing country match that of my example > (Egypt?) I can’t see them doing anything at scale; they simply don’t have > the money/political motivation. > > Yes. We have similar issues in Mauritius. We are also a small country. We > have too many ICE cars on the road. However, we saw an increase in > hybrid/EV purchases in 2022 and the number is growing for 2023. I'm not a > Nissan fan, but the Nissan Leaf is the most affordable one. > > > > > > HAYDEN SIMON > > UBER GROUP LIMITED > > MANAGING DIRECTOR > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > <https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> > > [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> > > *E:* h@uber.nz > > *M:* 021 0707 014 <021%200707%20014> > > *W:* www.uber.nz > > 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Loganaden Velvindron <loganaden@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 20, 2023 6:33 PM > *To:* Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> > *Cc:* George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com>; Dave Taht via Starlink > <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > *Subject:* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... > > > > > > > > On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 09:16, Hayden Simon <h@uber.nz> wrote: > > How do you apply a statement like that to the middle east? 20million > people in Cairo / Giza; 110million (I think?) total in Egypt. Fuel is > NZ$0.50c/litre; cars freaking everywhere running all day long. Average > salaries are very low. How would they afford the transition away from > fossil fuels? You could extend that same question to any developing economy. > > We're never going to be able to make a useful dent in emissions until we > address the developing world. > > I come from a developing country. Our government is giving tax breaks on > hybrid and EVs on import. I agree that there is more we can do ... > > > > > > HAYDEN SIMON > > UBER GROUP LIMITED > > MANAGING DIRECTOR > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > <https://www.facebook.com/UberGroup?_rdr=p> > > [image: Image removed by sender.] <https://twitter.com/ubergroupltd> > > *E:* h@uber.nz > > *M:* 021 0707 014 <021%200707%20014> > > *W:* www.uber.nz > > 53 PORT ROAD | PO BOX 5083 | WHANGAREI | NEW ZEALAND > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of > Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink > Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 5:06 PM > To: George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> > Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... > > Switching to nuclear energy could be an option. We can all learn from > France's experience. I agree that We should stop pumping CO2 in the > atmosphere. ICE cars should be phased out more aggressively. > Governments should give tax breaks to companies with work from home > policies ? > > On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 at 08:37, George C. G. Barbosa <gcgbarbosa@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > It could be a solution to the heat problem, but then we would keep > pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, which would increase ocean acidification, > which would disrupt the ecosystem even more. Plankton in the ocean accounts > for roughly 1/2 of the oxygen we breathe. My point is: this is a hard > problem. The solution won't be simple. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:27 PM Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> This should get deployed asap. > >> > >> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 02:55 Dave Taht via Starlink < > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> MIT has a pretty innovative proposal here: > >>> > >>> https://senseable.mit.edu/space-bubbles/ > >>> -- > >>> Podcast: > >>> https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:705879391022711 > >>> 1937/ > >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Starlink mailing list > >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Starlink mailing list > >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 29145 bytes --] [-- Attachment #2: ~WRD2830.jpg --] [-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 823 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 6:53 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 6:56 ` Hayden Simon @ 2023-07-20 7:40 ` Daniel AJ Sokolov 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Daniel AJ Sokolov @ 2023-07-20 7:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: starlink On 2023-07-19 at 23:53, Loganaden Velvindron via Starlink wrote: > Yes. We have similar issues in Mauritius. We are also a small country. We > have too many ICE cars on the road. However, we saw an increase in > hybrid/EV purchases in 2022 and the number is growing for 2023. Mauritius has a long history of massive import duties on ICE vehicles. 100% duty, plus 15% VAT. Plus the significant cost of shipping the vehicle to the island far out in the Indian Ocean. And still traffic is challenging. That tells you something about the allure of the car. However, because the way roads and traffic are, you really want a small car, not a large one, in Mauritius. (It is the only country I have been to where they have a divided highway, but then they use one lane on the "wrong" side to add capacity during rush hour. No traffic lights above the lane to indicate that. Locals just know.) When I visited the most recent time, in 2018, it cost me more to rent a tiny car (without CDW insurance) for a week than to rent a large house with garden for a week - and that house was not in a tourist hotspot at all (Surinam, MU, if you want to know). To wit, I don't think we can extrapolate experiences from Mauritius to other developing countries. >I'm not a > Nissan fan, but the Nissan Leaf is the most affordable one. Yes, I can see that being a great vehicle for Mauritius. But the Leaf is being discontinued, because Nissan is making a loss with every one they sell. Unsustainable. Cheers Daniel ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] geo-engineering... 2023-07-20 4:25 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 4:37 ` George C. G. Barbosa @ 2023-07-20 16:39 ` Michael Richardson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Michael Richardson @ 2023-07-20 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht via Starlink [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 492 bytes --] The question isn't whether or not this would work, or whether we would continue to pollute afterwards. (Both good questions though). The question is how we would make the decision to do this as a planet. The innovation we need is not in the area of technology, but in decision making. Back before the endless-September, I think many of thought the Internet, through some kind of authentication overlay to Usenet, would enable well informed direct democracy. Man we we were idealists. [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 511 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-07-20 16:39 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2023-07-19 22:55 [Starlink] geo-engineering Dave Taht 2023-07-20 4:25 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 4:37 ` George C. G. Barbosa 2023-07-20 5:06 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 5:16 ` Hayden Simon 2023-07-20 6:33 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 6:44 ` Hayden Simon 2023-07-20 6:53 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 6:56 ` Hayden Simon 2023-07-20 7:13 ` Loganaden Velvindron 2023-07-20 7:40 ` Daniel AJ Sokolov 2023-07-20 16:39 ` Michael Richardson
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