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boundary="_000_SY4PR01MB6979574D1855F32A8B8F0DC6CEF59SY4PR01MB6979ausp_" Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 21:16:39 -0000 --_000_SY4PR01MB6979574D1855F32A8B8F0DC6CEF59SY4PR01MB6979ausp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The use of the term "speed" in communications used to be restricted to the = speed of light (or whatever propagation speed one happened to be dealing wi= th. Everything else was a "rate". Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I think talki= ng about "speed tests" muddies the waters rather a lot. -- **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel Department of Computer Science Room 303S.594 Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 The University of Auckland u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** ________________________________ From: Starlink on behalf of rjmcma= hon via Starlink Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 9:02 AM To: jf@jonathanfoulkes.com Cc: Cake List ; IETF IPPM WG ; l= ibreqos ; Dave Taht via Starlink ; Rpm ; bloat Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas prese= nt Curious to why people keep calling capacity tests speed tests? A semi at 55 mph isn't faster than a porsche at 141 mph because its load volume is larger. Bob > HNY Dave and all the rest, > > Great to see yet another capacity test add latency metrics to the > results. This one looks like a good start. > > Results from my Windstream DOCSIS 3.1 line (3.1 on download only, up > is 3.0) Gigabit down / 35Mbps up provisioning. Using an IQrouter Pro > (an i5 x86) with Cake set for 710/31 as this ISP can=92t deliver > reliable low-latency unless you shave a good bit off the targets. My > local loop is pretty congested. > > Here=92s the latest Cloudflare test: > > > > > And an Ookla test run just afterward: > > > > > They are definitely both in the ballpark and correspond to other tests > run from the router itself or my (wired) MacBook Pro. > > Cheers, > > Jonathan > > >> On Jan 4, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm >> wrote: >> >> Please try the new, the shiny, the really wonderful test here: >> https://speed.cloudflare.com/ >> >> I would really appreciate some independent verification of >> measurements using this tool. In my brief experiments it appears - as >> all the commercial tools to date - to dramatically understate the >> bufferbloat, on my LTE, (and my starlink terminal is out being >> hacked^H^H^H^H^H^Hworked on, so I can't measure that) >> >> My test of their test reports 223ms 5G latency under load , where >> flent reports over 2seconds. See comparison attached. >> >> My guess is that this otherwise lovely new tool, like too many, >> doesn't run for long enough. Admittedly, most web objects (their >> target market) are small, and so long as they remain small and not >> heavily pipelined this test is a very good start... but I'm pretty >> sure cloudflare is used for bigger uploads and downloads than that. >> There's no way to change the test to run longer either. >> >> I'd love to get some results from other networks (compared as usual to >> flent), especially ones with cake on it. I'd love to know if they >> measured more minimum rtts that can be obtained with fq_codel or cake, >> correctly. >> >> Love Always, >> The Grinch >> >> -- >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666= 65607352320-FXtz >> Dave T=E4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> ______________= _________________________________ >> Rpm mailing list >> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm > > > _______________________________________________ > Rpm mailing list > Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --_000_SY4PR01MB6979574D1855F32A8B8F0DC6CEF59SY4PR01MB6979ausp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The use of the term "speed" in communicat= ions used to be restricted to the speed of light (or whatever propagation speed one happened to be dealing with. Everything= else was a "rate". Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I think talking a= bout "speed tests" muddies the waters rather a lot.

-- 
**************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel

Department of Computer Science

Room 303S.594
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282

The University of Auckland
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************
From: Starlink <starlink= -bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of rjmcmahon via Starlink <= starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 9:02 AM
To: jf@jonathanfoulkes.com <jf@jonathanfoulkes.com>
Cc: Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>; IETF IPPM WG <i= ppm@ietf.org>; libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Dave Tah= t via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Rpm <rpm@lists.bu= fferbloat.net>; bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christma= s present
 
Curious to why people keep calling capacity tests speed tests? A semi = at
55 mph isn't faster than a porsche at 141 mph because its load volume is larger.

Bob
> HNY Dave and all the rest,
>
> Great to see yet another capacity test add latency metrics to the
> results. This one looks like a good start.
>
> Results from my Windstream DOCSIS 3.1 line (3.1 on download only, up > is 3.0) Gigabit down / 35Mbps up provisioning. Using an IQrouter Pro > (an i5 x86) with Cake set for 710/31 as this ISP can=92t deliver
> reliable low-latency unless you shave a good bit off the targets. My > local loop is pretty congested.
>
> Here=92s the latest Cloudflare test:
>
>
>
>
> And an Ookla test run just afterward:
>
>
>
>
> They are definitely both in the ballpark and correspond to other tests=
> run from the router itself or my (wired) MacBook Pro.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>> On Jan 4, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm
>> <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> Please try the new, the shiny, the really wonderful test here:
>> https://speed.cloudflare.com/
>>
>> I would really appreciate some independent verification of
>> measurements using this tool. In my brief experiments it appears -= as
>> all the commercial tools to date - to dramatically understate the<= br> >> bufferbloat, on my LTE, (and my starlink terminal is out being
>> hacked^H^H^H^H^H^Hworked on, so I can't measure that)
>>
>> My test of their test reports 223ms 5G latency under load , where<= br> >> flent reports over 2seconds. See comparison attached.
>>
>> My guess is that this otherwise lovely new tool, like too many, >> doesn't run for long enough. Admittedly, most web objects (their >> target market) are small, and so long as they remain small and not=
>> heavily pipelined this test is a very good start... but I'm pretty=
>> sure cloudflare is used for bigger uploads and downloads than that= .
>> There's no way to change the test to run longer either.
>>
>> I'd love to get some results from other networks (compared as usua= l to
>> flent), especially ones with cake on it. I'd love to know if they<= br> >> measured more minimum rtts that can be obtained with fq_codel or c= ake,
>> correctly.
>>
>> Love Always,
>> The Grinch
>>
>> --
>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:=
>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz
>> Dave T=E4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> <image.png><tcp_nup-2023-01-04T090937.211620.LTE.flent.gz= >_______________________________________________
>> Rpm mailing list
>> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rpm mailing list
> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.b= ufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
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