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boundary="_000_SY4PR01MB697983BB5DEB1B2AA0B2690BCE639SY4PR01MB6979ausp_" Subject: Re: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 04:33:07 -0000 --_000_SY4PR01MB697983BB5DEB1B2AA0B2690BCE639SY4PR01MB6979ausp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Where do I even start? The lack of substantial bandwidth between space and = ground? The extra latency between ground and space compared to terrestrial = cloud, especially as terrestrial cloud edge can move much closer to custome= rs when space can't? The fact that every LEO satellite is both a few 100 km= from every customer and out of the customer's range depending on when you = look? That low temperatures in space don't mean superconductive chips that = produce zero heat, and that that heat is difficult to get rid of in space? = That generating power in space is orders of magnitude more expensive than o= n the ground? Just because Starlink can provide a service somewhere between DSL and low t= o medium grade fibre to a few million around the globe it's not "done". Eve= n with 10x the number of satellites and a couple of times the current capac= ity per satellite, Starlink isn't going to supply more than a couple of 100= million at best, and that's not even accounting for growth in demand from = IOT... -- **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 The University of Auckland ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** -------- Original message -------- From: Tom Evslin via Starlink Date: 20/04/23 1:13 pm (GMT+12:00) To: 'Michael Richardson' , 'starlink' , e-impact@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space) I think space-based data centers will be the rule rather than the exception= . Wrote about that a couple of years ago although, as usual, things have no= t happened as quickly as I predicted https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/com= puting-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-roadmap.html -----Original Message----- From: Starlink On Behalf Of Michae= l Richardson via Starlink Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 7:35 PM To: starlink ; e-impact@ietf.org Subject: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space) I saw this reported in BIS-Spaceflight. (I'm usually a few months behind in reading it) I like the "first objective= "! https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thales-= alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data Cannes, November 14, 2022 =96 Thales Alenia Space, the joint company betwee= n Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), has been chosen by the European Commissi= on to lead the ASCEND (Advanced Space Cloud for European Net zero emission = and Data sovereignty) feasibility study for data centers in orbit, as part = of Europe=92s vast Horizon Europe research program. Digital technology=92s expanding environmental footprint is becoming a majo= r challenge: the burgeoning need for digitalization means that data centers i= n Europe and around the world are growing at an exponential pace, which in = turn has a critical energy and environmental impact. The first objective of this study will be to assess if the carbon emissions= from the production and launch of these space infrastructures will be sign= ificantly lower than the emissions generated by ground-based data centers, = therefore contributing to the achievement of global carbon neutrality. The = second objective will be to prove that it is possible to develop the requir= ed launch solution and to ensure the deployment and operability of these sp= aceborne data centers using robotic assistance technologies currently being= developed in Europe, such as the EROSS IOD demonstrator. This project is expected to demonstrate to which extent space-based data ce= nters would limit the energy and environmental impact of their ground count= erparts, thus allowing major investments within the scope of Europe=92s Gre= en Deal, possibly justifying the development of a more climate-friendly, re= usable heavy launch vehicle. Europe could thus regain its leadership in spa= ce transport and space logistics, as well as the assembly and operations of= large infrastructures in orbit. _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --_000_SY4PR01MB697983BB5DEB1B2AA0B2690BCE639SY4PR01MB6979ausp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Where do I even start? The lack of substantial bandwidth = between space and ground? The extra latency between ground and space compar= ed to terrestrial cloud, especially as terrestrial cloud edge can move much= closer to customers when space can't? The fact that every LEO satellite is both a few 100 km from every customer= and out of the customer's range depending on when you look? That low tempe= ratures in space don't mean superconductive chips that produce zero heat, a= nd that that heat is difficult to get rid of in space? That generating power in space is orders of magnitude= more expensive than on the ground?

Just because Starlink can provide a service somewhere bet= ween DSL and low to medium grade fibre to a few million around the globe it= 's not "done". Even with 10x the number of satellites and a coupl= e of times the current capacity per satellite, Starlink isn't going to supply more than a couple of 100 million at best, = and that's not even accounting for growth in demand from IOT...

--

****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282

The University of Auckland
ulrich@cs.auckland= .ac.nz
http://www.c= s.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************



-------- Original message --------
From: Tom Evslin via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> <= /div>
Date: 20/04/23 1:13 pm (GMT+12:00)
To: 'Michael Richardson' <mcr@sandelman.ca>, 'starlink' <star= link@lists.bufferbloat.net>, e-impact@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in sp= ace)

I think space-based data centers will be the rule rather than the exce= ption. Wrote about that a couple of years ago although, as usual, things ha= ve not happened as quickly as I predicted https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-roa= dmap.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of = Michael Richardson via Starlink
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 7:35 PM
To: starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; e-impact@ietf.org
Subject: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)


I saw this reported in BIS-Spaceflight.
(I'm usually a few months behind in reading it) I like the "first obje= ctive"!

https://www.t= halesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thales-alenia-space-= lead-european-feasibility-study-data

Cannes, November 14, 2022 =96 Thales Alenia Space, the joint company betwee= n Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), has been chosen by the European Commissi= on to lead the ASCEND (Advanced Space Cloud for European Net zero emission = and Data sovereignty) feasibility study for data centers in orbit, as part of Europe=92s vast Horizon Europe= research program.

Digital technology=92s expanding environmental footprint is becoming a majo= r
challenge: the burgeoning need for digitalization means that data centers i= n Europe and around the world are growing at an exponential pace, which in = turn has a critical energy and environmental impact.

The first objective of this study will be to assess if the carbon emissions= from the production and launch of these space infrastructures will be sign= ificantly lower than the emissions generated by ground-based data centers, = therefore contributing to the achievement of global carbon neutrality. The second objective will be to prove that it= is possible to develop the required launch solution and to ensure the depl= oyment and operability of these spaceborne data centers using robotic assis= tance technologies currently being developed in Europe, such as the EROSS IOD demonstrator.

This project is expected to demonstrate to which extent space-based data ce= nters would limit the energy and environmental impact of their ground count= erparts, thus allowing major investments within the scope of Europe=92s Gre= en Deal, possibly justifying the development of a more climate-friendly, reusable heavy launch vehicle. Europe could th= us regain its leadership in space transport and space logistics, as well as= the assembly and operations of large infrastructures in orbit.

_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.b= ufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.b= ufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
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