From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from gatekeeper1-relay.space.net (gatekeeper1-relay.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:3:85::38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 139AA3B29D for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 02:41:32 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=space.net; i=@space.net; q=dns/txt; s=esa; t=1695451293; x=1726987293; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=VmgUpXwB/En+RKpCn2wFcBfM30FzWEmWkcYDigcdJYI=; b=MANO/zsvgHjbyaOzGCoO6ffcVzeuE48R+hAdTjQKxndakX7TfBNYte+9 g1j+qXqRek/8cuuQPRUh4orUYSIoGe5xkA70xZND56R2/n3T5PACBKPGK XUB+2iFY+TtvjkS8rOsPRukJ50GMIC2lBgSr6KMoVgGh+l1q+fFloTxWy UWMvtD9M5MsY0oZcAJOC/aZxSXo2gWq7dfCcbLvzpyL4pYkd33q5D8tkG bEmE8Oa6+/UDfYG+B/StUsM0fEjfNK8aTgww9M/fCIYaeXLvr3K16bwg5 KCJJF8q8vCg7TYWMec9O1S1aPcFJb6rwms59D47Df0vy7zDYkb/E9fGMr A==; X-SpaceNet-SBRS: None Received: from mobil.space.net ([195.30.115.67]) by gatekeeper1-relay.space.net with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Sep 2023 08:41:31 +0200 Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E086942704 for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 08:41:30 +0200 (CEST) X-SpaceNet-Relay: true Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC19342463; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 08:41:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id C9C757276; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 08:41:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 08:41:30 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Noel Butler Cc: Vint Cerf , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Message-ID: References: <9d96e8d6-8a40-4353-b7a3-49881742f1a7@auckland.ac.nz> <83e9b47895d019d282e21bbdd4f4cc57@ausics.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83e9b47895d019d282e21bbdd4f4cc57@ausics.net> Subject: Re: [Starlink] APNIC56 last week X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 06:41:33 -0000 Hi, On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 02:22:58PM +1000, Noel Butler via Starlink wrote: > Oh I agree it's not a good situation, but my point was it's still most > dominant 30 years after they claimed we had about 5 years, This is not actually a contradiction. IPv4 *has* run out - but that does not mean (and never meant) "the existing IPv4 network will stop working over night". It just means "building new IPv4 networks is way more expensive" and "doing anything useful with IPv4 heaps up more and more technical dept" (like, multiple layers of NAT44 inside Enterprise networks). Moving more actively towards IPv6 would have avoided many of the costs we're facing today. > it's like the > little boy who cried wolf, if they held off the hysterics until it was > proved imminent, I've no doubt the update would be greater and taken more > seriously (I've used IPv6 for over 10 years myself), but the global low > uptake is what causes ISP's and Telco's to use CGNAT, its free and > plentiful, so it still wont be laid to rest for a while yet. Well, CGNAT is far from "free". Have you had a look what vendors charge for a 100G-capable CGNAT box? But indeed, IPv6 deployment is still spotty. Some countries are doing well (like, Germany, with all major access and mobile providers providing IPv6 as normal part of the service), others try to ignore it away (Italy)... Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279